Biden / HARRIS Policy Discussion

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@noSpaces

Then many places could raise their rents.

I don’t see why that would happen… but there would be a lot of money released into the economy that was formally servicing a debt for knowledge scheme.

ALL of that money gets added to the National Debt. The interest payments on the debt will consume any so-called “released money” from the economy.

What is the value of a debt that the American people owe to themselves?

Currently the American people pay 11% of the annual budget just to pay the interest on the debt. Five years ago, it was 6%. Do you see where that is going?

It’s pretty meaningless at this point now isn’t it?

It is estimated that paying off all student loans is about $1.6 trillion. There have been proposals that would pay for it with a surcharge on stock trades. I actually love that idea. It would tax the high speed traders the most. The people that add literally nothing to the economy.

But even without a way to pay for it. We all seemed to be fine with a huge unfunded wealth transfer to corporations and the wealthy a few years ago.

This is a wealth transfer to mostly the middle class

Yay

[mwevans1234]

@Samm

I don’t know what public school in 1970 you are talking about, but mine (one of the cheapest at the time, the University of Alaska) cost me an average of about $2000 per semester between '65 and '70. That is about $13,800 per semester or $27,600 per year or $110,400 for a four-year degree in 2000 dollars. If you are getting the same education for only $90,000, you are getting a damn good deal.

Average annual charges for higher education in the U.S. 2021 | Statista

Median Incomes v. Average College Tuition Rates - College Education - ProCon.org

How college costs have changed in the last 50 years

I think your memory may be tricking you? What you are saying just isn’t accurate.

You were not paying $4k/year in the 60s to go to Alaska.

Tuition Increase Outpaces Inflation | News | The Harvard Crimson

HARVARD cost $4000/year in 1970. University of Alaska did not. That’s bonkers

[Samm]

I remember the cost of my college education very well. My first semester cost just under $1600 before I went to the book store to buy around $100 of text books. By 1969, that cost for a semester had gone up over $2000 and the books cost me closer to $200. And do you know why I remember it so clearly? Because I paid every penny of it myself.

The sites you linked present “The average annual fee for tuition and required services at public institutions …” That does not include room and board. Ya gotta live while you learn you know.

[DougBH]

@mwevans1234

@DougBH

I took on student loans. They helped me get a job. With the job, I paid them back.

Dude, you’re 70. Let’s get real.

In 2020 dollars, it cost about $10k for a four year in state public education in 1970, compared with $90k today.

With what I contribute monthly to my kids’ 529s today, it would have taken me about 2 years of saving when they are 10 and 11 to pay full tuition if we were in your time.

As it stands, my monthly contributions will go all the way from 0-18 to cover the same. The same thing you were able to get for $2500/year will cost $30,000/year when my kids are 18.

Then maybe those runaway costs are more the problem than the loans themselves.

[Samm]

@DougBH

@mwevans1234

@DougBH

I took on student loans. They helped me get a job. With the job, I paid them back.

Dude, you’re 70. Let’s get real.

In 2020 dollars, it cost about $10k for a four year in state public education in 1970, compared with $90k today.

With what I contribute monthly to my kids’ 529s today, it would have taken me about 2 years of saving when they are 10 and 11 to pay full tuition if we were in your time.

As it stands, my monthly contributions will go all the way from 0-18 to cover the same. The same thing you were able to get for $2500/year will cost $30,000/year when my kids are 18.

Then maybe those runaway costs are more the problem than the loans themselves.

Actually, they are symbiotic. The Universities quickly learned they could raise tuition and fees, because the government made loans so easily available.

[mwevans1234]

@Samm

I remember the cost of my college education very well. My first semester cost just under $1600 before I went to the book store to buy around $100 of text books. By 1969, that cost for a semester had gone up over $2000 and the books cost me closer to $200. And do you know why I remember it so clearly? Because I paid every penny of it myself.

The sites you linked present “The average annual fee for tuition and required services at public institutions …” That does not include room and board. Ya gotta live while you learn you know.

Wrong!

Just wrong wrong wrong.

Average undergraduate tuition and fees and room and board rates charged for...

Wrong!

https://research.collegeboard.org/xlsx/trends-college-pricing-excel-data-2020.xlsx

[Optrader]

@Jezcoe

@Optrader

@Jezcoe

@komobu

@PurpnGold

Taking out loans for education is now considered irresponsible? Funny coming from the “small businesses are foundational” crowd

I couldnt go to college. I joined the Military and took care of my family. Why should I be required to pay your college loans? I also refinanced my paid off house so I could pay for my daughters college without her taking on any debt.

Why should I be for this? Pay for your own college like you promised to when you took out the loans.

The whole “why should I be forced to pay for …” is a rather silly argument that to me doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

This is about how we choose to allocate government resources.

Reducing a bunch of personal debt that is dragging on the economy benefits us all.

It allows people to spend money into the economy instead of servicing a knowledge for debt business plan.

Knowledge for debt business plan? I have a “housing for debt business plan” that I’ve had far longer and for a lot more money than most college loans. Of course selfish people would call it a “MORTGAGE” and claim that I volunteered to take out, and then, get this, they would actually claim that I did it FULLY KNOWING THE TERMS! How about if Uncle Sugar takes care of my little problem so I can have more money to put back into the economy too? After all, everyone benefits if I’m not burdened by debts I agreed to pay for something I alone get to use. Right??

Property is a tangible asset.

Knowledge is not a tangible asset.

Mortgage interest can also be a write off.

Student loan debt cannot.

Who the hell cares? The person who borrowed is the one who gets the benefit of a lifetime of higher paying jobs. If that’s not a tangible asset to someone what the hell is?? And why would anyone bother doing it if they didn’t receive something they felt was worth the money? Why the hell is it my job to pay for someone else’s college education? If your so keen on giving out free education to college students, why don’t you pony up your own money and pay for a college education for someone else. Start a scholarship or something. But I’m guessing that this, like 100% of everything else Libs call for, is something that Libs will only do it the government compels them!! The GOVERNMENT HAS CONTROL AND AUTHORITY!

And you guys can’t figure out why we confuse Libs with thieving Socialists!!

[Optrader]

@Samm

@DougBH

@mwevans1234

@DougBH

I took on student loans. They helped me get a job. With the job, I paid them back.

Dude, you’re 70. Let’s get real.

In 2020 dollars, it cost about $10k for a four year in state public education in 1970, compared with $90k today.

With what I contribute monthly to my kids’ 529s today, it would have taken me about 2 years of saving when they are 10 and 11 to pay full tuition if we were in your time.

As it stands, my monthly contributions will go all the way from 0-18 to cover the same. The same thing you were able to get for $2500/year will cost $30,000/year when my kids are 18.

Then maybe those runaway costs are more the problem than the loans themselves.

Actually, they are symbiotic. The Universities quickly learned they could raise tuition and fees, because the government made loans so easily available.

Which is precisely what would keep happening if the government pays tuition.

[altair1013]

@noSpaces

Debt forgiveness is likely just another wealth transfer to the asset holding class

Who does offering free medical care to illegal invaders help?

[GrandWazoo]

@altair1013

Who does offering free medical care to illegal invaders help?

How many illegals are here who do not work and therefore pay taxes?
Do we deny a illegal medical help when their life is at stake?

[Samm]

@mwevans1234

@Samm

I remember the cost of my college education very well. My first semester cost just under $1600 before I went to the book store to buy around $100 of text books. By 1969, that cost for a semester had gone up over $2000 and the books cost me closer to $200. And do you know why I remember it so clearly? Because I paid every penny of it myself.

The sites you linked present “The average annual fee for tuition and required services at public institutions …” That does not include room and board. Ya gotta live while you learn you know.

Wrong!

Just wrong wrong wrong.

Average undergraduate tuition and fees and room and board rates charged for full-time students in degree-granting institutions, by type and control of institution: 1964-65 through 2006-07

Wrong!

https://research.collegeboard.org/xlsx/trends-college-pricing-excel-data-2020.xlsx

Well, all I can tell you is that the average semester cost for my four year degree achieved in 1970 was about $2000. In 2020 dollars, that’s $27,600 per year. And I don’t give a damn if you don’t believe me.

[Samm]

@Optrader

@Samm

@DougBH

@mwevans1234

@DougBH

I took on student loans. They helped me get a job. With the job, I paid them back.

Dude, you’re 70. Let’s get real.

In 2020 dollars, it cost about $10k for a four year in state public education in 1970, compared with $90k today.

With what I contribute monthly to my kids’ 529s today, it would have taken me about 2 years of saving when they are 10 and 11 to pay full tuition if we were in your time.

As it stands, my monthly contributions will go all the way from 0-18 to cover the same. The same thing you were able to get for $2500/year will cost $30,000/year when my kids are 18.

Then maybe those runaway costs are more the problem than the loans themselves.

Actually, they are symbiotic. The Universities quickly learned they could raise tuition and fees, because the government made loans so easily available.

Which is precisely what would keep happening if the government pays tuition.

Precisely!

[moonshine]

@coolidge

Declaring bankruptcy and allowing student loans to be forgiven would be like declaring bankruptcy and wiping your mortgage clean and allowing you to keep your house.

in some states you can already do that

[moonshine]

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@Samm

@Jezcoe

@noSpaces

Then many places could raise their rents.

I don’t see why that would happen… but there would be a lot of money released into the economy that was formally servicing a debt for knowledge scheme.

ALL of that money gets added to the National Debt. The interest payments on the debt will consume any so-called “released money” from the economy.

What is the value of a debt that the American people owe to themselves?

Currently the American people pay 11% of the annual budget just to pay the interest on the debt. Five years ago, it was 6%. Do you see where that is going?

in 2020 debt service was 7.8% of the budget

Interest on the National Debt and How It Affects You

[moonshine]

@Samm

I remember the cost of my college education very well. My first semester cost just under $1600 before I went to the book store to buy around $100 of text books. By 1969, that cost for a semester had gone up over $2000 and the books cost me closer to $200. And do you know why I remember it so clearly? Because I paid every penny of it myself.

The sites you linked present “The average annual fee for tuition and required services at public institutions …” That does not include room and board. Ya gotta live while you learn you know.

in 1971 the average cost in 2018 dollars of college including tutiton room and board and books was 8730/year in 1971 dollars that was 1408

in 2018 the average cost was 21370

Here's how much college cost the year you were born

[moonshine]

@Samm

@mwevans1234

@Samm

I remember the cost of my college education very well. My first semester cost just under $1600 before I went to the book store to buy around $100 of text books. By 1969, that cost for a semester had gone up over $2000 and the books cost me closer to $200. And do you know why I remember it so clearly? Because I paid every penny of it myself.

The sites you linked present “The average annual fee for tuition and required services at public institutions …” That does not include room and board. Ya gotta live while you learn you know.

Wrong!

Just wrong wrong wrong.

Average undergraduate tuition and fees and room and board rates charged for full-time students in degree-granting institutions, by type and control of institution: 1964-65 through 2006-07

Wrong!

https://research.collegeboard.org/xlsx/trends-college-pricing-excel-data-2020.xlsx

Well, all I can tell you is that the average semester cost for my four year degree achieved in 1970 was about $2000. In 2020 dollars, that’s $27,600 per year. And I don’t give a damn if you don’t believe me.

2000 in 1970 is 13442 today

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2023

[Rodeo]

@RTchoke

Neither of those situations gives either party a free ride.

You are asking responsible people to pay for their college while telling irresponsible people they can have theirs for free because they racked up so much debt.

And you know what’s really sad…

The damn colleges will just keep charging more and more and nobody will do a thing about that part of the equation…

So now we the taxpayers will be paying all the bills while the schools build up their endowments and our kids get a good solid leftist indoctrination along with their useless degrees before becoming a barista somewhere.

If I had college age children today I d be looking at a good trade school or 2 years of community college to get all the basics out if the way.

[mwevans1234]

That adds up - he’s saying he was paying $2k/semester ($4k annually), which is $27k today.

The issue is that no, that’s not what he paid, unless University of Alaska and Harvard cost the same. Why it matters is because his “It was the same then as it is now” argument is based on this memory.

[coolidge]

@PurpnGold

@coolidge

Declaring bankruptcy and allowing student loans to be forgiven would be like declaring bankruptcy and wiping your mortgage clean and allowing you to keep your house.

You can declare bankruptcy today for unsecured debt. What’s the difference?

Property values increase. Education is similar. Being able to declare bankruptcy to wipe away the debt but able to keep an asset, that’s not right either.

[coolidge]

And its wrong. Nobody should be able to keep assets without paying for them