Biden goes full fascist: Get the shot or get fired

[WuWei]

@Orygun

@WuWei

This is you “debating”? You prefer LOL?

Kay onto my chore list.

I hope you learn.

[WorldWatcher]

@conan

It was a private company. Do you understand just how much a half a billion dollars do?

Remember Solyndra? They received half a billion dollars.

Now what did J&J and Moderna do with that money? We are not talking about pocket change here.

Do you understand that the vaccine was already developed before the April money and therefore the money in April was not for development because it already existed?

WW

[mbus]

@Orygun

@WuWei

It says “The Congress” anyway.

Agreed that it says Congress and not the President. There has been considerable mission creep in terms of expanded executive powers for quite some time. From Cambodian secret bombings to torture doctrines, DACA, abrogating funds to “build the wall” to vaccine mandates.

It’s a thorny issue but the trajectory has been to allow for more executive power. Usually conservatives would want to rein that in but criticism seems to only explode when a Democrat is in office.

A fascinating subject unto itself and worthy of a good thread.

[WuWei]

Do you understand that approval and all that goes with it is part of “development” for getting it into arms?

[DMK]

@Orygun

I will also acknowledge that mandates will lead to more resistance to vaccination.

Again a weird part of my brain wonders if this is a secret reverse psychology plot to get conservatives not to take the vaccine. Now that’s a conspiracy theory!

If you believe it is only conservatives not taking the Covid vaccine, you are mistaken.

[WuWei]

Mod Note

Stop Trolling. You are warned.

[WuWei]

Surgeon general: US to 'monitor' whether vaccine exemptions being used properly

Another slip

[conan]

@WorldWatcher

Do you understand that the vaccine was already developed before the April money and therefore the money in April was not for development because it already existed?

No ■■■■■ They weren’t approved and still needed more testing. The money was there so they can fast track the production once it was approved. Hence operation warp speed.

Now what did J&J and Moderna do with that money?

[WorldWatcher]

@Orygun

If…this gets to the Supreme Court…it could be exceedingly difficult to throw out this mandate but allow for other mandates to exist. They could thread the needle by saying this vaccine is more novel and therefore an exemption in this case is allowed- but that’s a pretty lousy ruling. I seriously doubt they would throw out mandates in general so it would be a challenge for the Supreme Court to rule on this.

I disagree.

It is perfectly resonable for different mandate requirements to have different thresholds and outcomes so that means different questions.

#1 Is the Federal government empowered (without an act of Congress) to mandate vaccines for it’s own employees?

#2 Is the Federal government empowered (without an act of Congress) to mandate vaccines for contractors who take federal funds?

#3 Is the Federal government empowered (without an act of Congress) to mandate vaccines for private companies with X number of employees (assuming an attempt to make a connection with interstate commerce)?

#4 Repeat #1, #2, and #3 if a State or Local government does the exact same thing.

#5 Can a private business (not an entity of any federal, state or local government) require vaccine mandates, masking and/or testing as (a) a condition of work and/or (b) as a condition of utilizing the services of said company as a customer.

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There is no single question and the answer is not always clear cut.

WW

[conan]

Are you going to answer my question WW?

[WuWei]

And a dozen more.

[WorldWatcher]

@conan

@WorldWatcher

Do you understand that the vaccine was already developed before the April money and therefore the money in April was not for development because it already existed?

No ■■■■■ They weren’t approved and still needed more testing. The money was there so they can fast track the production once it was approved. Hence operation warp speed.

Now what did J&J and Moderna do with that money?

Never said they were approved.

There were however already developed.

Thank you for confirming exactly what I said before, the April money was not about developing the vaccine, it already existed. The April money was about scaling for manufacture and moving the already developed vaccine through the approval process.

Thank you.

WW

[conan]

Are you going to answer my question…yes or no WW?

[conan]

@WorldWatcher

The April money was about scaling for manufacture and moving the already developed vaccine through the approval process.

Oh I see…now you say April…before you said May.

[WuWei]

@WorldWatcher

The April money was about scaling for manufacture

Part of development.

[WorldWatcher]

@conan

Are you going to answer my question…yes or no WW?

Google is your friend. You want something found I suggest you try there.

We could exchange personal information and I could do research for you. My current hourly rate is $46.57, but you would have to up that to cover taxes and such that my employer covers. Last time I did contract work (many years ago) I forgot that piece and had a surprise come the next spring. LOLz

WW

[conan]

So you’re not going to answer my question after proving your statement was false.

BTW…you’re overcharging if what you had given me is any indication.

[WorldWatcher]

@conan

So you’re not going to answer my question after proving your statement was false.

BTW…you’re overcharging if what you had given me is any indication.

You didn’t prove my statement false. The vaccines were developed before Operation Warp Speed came into being (May 2020). The vaccines were developed before the Trump** administration provided money (April 2020, prior to Warp Speed) for FUTURE manufacture scaling.

WW

[Orygun]

@WorldWatcher

I disagree.

It is perfectly resonable for different mandate requirements to have different thresholds and outcomes so that means different questions.

#1 Is the Federal government empowered (without an act of Congress) to mandate vaccines for it’s own employees?

#2 Is the Federal government empowered (without an act of Congress) to mandate vaccines for contractors who take federal funds?

#3 Is the Federal government empowered (without an act of Congress) to mandate vaccines for private companies with X number of employees (assuming an attempt to make a connection with interstate commerce)?

#4 Repeat #1, #2, and #3 if a State or Local government does the exact same thing.

#5 Can a private business (not an entity of any federal, state or local government) require vaccine mandates, masking and/or testing as (a) a condition of work and/or (b) as a condition of utilizing the services of said company as a customer.

.
.
.
There is no single question and the answer is not always clear cut.

Good post and interesting distinctions you bring out. It seems like the main tack is can the federal government, especially without legislative backing- give a mandate? I think this is where the mandate could die and I already give it about a 60 percent chance. However, the federal government does mandate vaccines and medications for soldiers so there has been somewhat of a precedence.

I think the Court could make a distinction there- and probably will. All in all, a good popcorn snack for us political nerds.

[WuWei]

@Orygun

However, the federal government does mandate vaccines and medications for soldiers

What does that have to do with you or me?