Bible study thread

Paul_Thomson · 2019-12-25T12:33:05.848Z

Bill.in.PA:

Note that the first fruits is mentioned in Leviticus as a important festival soon after Passover:

. . . bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect . . .
Leviticus 23:10-12

I believe Jesus was raised from the dead on the feast of firstfruits, and on that Sunday, after speaking with Mary Magdalene at the tomb, ascended to the Father to be presented before the Father as the first-begotten from the dead, in accordance with the OT levitical law.

Paul_Thomson · 2019-12-26T04:42:07.325Z

John 6:11 And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise the fish, as much as they wanted.

Paul_Thomson · 2019-12-27T04:59:53.138Z

Paul_Thomson:

John 6:11 And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise the fish, as much as they wanted.

Jesus told them to make the people sit down, and food was distributed to those who obeyed. Does that mean those wandering around restlessly were not served?

Those who ate received not just as much as they needed, but more than they needed. In fact, it seems they wanted more than they could manage to eat.

"Would you like some bread or fish? "
"No, I would like caviar and croissants. "
Those who didn’t express a desire for the food on offer were not given any.

God’s word is what it is. If people would prefer it presented in a more palatable or interesting form from God, their only options are to accept it from God as given, or reject it from God as given.

When we demand God’s message according to some other recipe, there are plenty of cooks who will add this and that, and remove this or that bone, but we risk not getting God’s intended message, but some man’s ear-tickling souffle.

God sets the menu, we can only choose from what he is willing to serve. We don’t get to decide on and edit the menu of spiritual truth. Rev 22:18-19

Paul_Thomson · 2019-12-27T05:02:36.155Z

John 6:12 when they were filled, he said to his disciples,
"Gather up the pieces that remain that nothing be lost. "

Paul_Thomson · 2019-12-27T05:13:47.607Z

Has anyone experience Jesus supplying their needs miraculously?

Very soon after be coming a believer I was hitch-hiking through a town and stopped at a Christian book shop. I saw a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance on sale, reduced from $99 to $20 because the cover was damaged. I said to Jesus
“Lord, that would be really useful for studying the Bible. But I don’t have any money left.”
In my mind someone said,
"Put your hand in your pocket. "
“Why? I have no money.”
“Put your hand in your pocket.”
When I did so, I pulled out a $20 note, and was able to buy the book.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-15T01:23:23.710Z

Does this mean Jesus doesn’t like us wasting stuff? Or to take responsibility for losing other people’s stuff? Did he see it as the boy’s bread, and since they had borrowed it from him, they were responsible not to lose any of it, but to return it all to him with the interest God had added?

Doesn’t it rile when you lend something to someone and it comes back broken or not at all, and they expect you simply to bear the cost yourself. It’s my habit to point out the damage and to at least offer to cover the costs of repairs or replacement. On New Years Eve we built a small fire on a beach in Sri Lanka. A family nearby were lighting fireworks, so I asked to borrow their lighter for a few minutes to light our fire. In the process, their lighter broke, so I told him I would go and buy another at the nearby shops. I bought three. One for me and two for him, although he would accept only one. But plenty of people in my life borrow my stuff and break or lose it but say nothing, and I only discover the damage or loss when I suddenly need the item again.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-15T01:30:51.224Z

John 6:13 Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above them that had eaten.

“He who gives to the poor, lends to the Lord”

The boy had given to the poor, and so had lent to the Lord. And “the Lord is no man’s debtor”. A hundred-fold (?) return on the boy’s investment in the kingdom in a few hours.

Guvnah · 2020-01-16T04:27:20.102Z

Glad you resurrected the thread. I want to see it keep going.

Thanks.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-16T12:19:47.977Z

John 6:14 then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, "This is, truly, that prophet that should come into the world. "

Which prophet are these men referring to?

" The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken."
Deuteronomy 18:15

" And there has arisen no prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom Yahweh knew face to face, in all the signs and the wonders, which Yahweh sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land, and in all the mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses showed in the sight of all Israel." Deut. 34:10-12

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-19T05:04:32.509Z

Thanks back.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-21T02:59:36.375Z

John 6:15 “When Jesus therefore perceived that they were going to come and seize him by force, that they might make him a king, he departed again into the mountain himself alone.”

A forced coronation? How does that even make sense? But that’s what they had in mind.

Let me draw together a few texts here.

Gen. 16:13 and he said to Abraham, "Know for sure that your seed shall be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them, and they shall afflict them: four hundred years. "

Ex. 12:40-41 "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was 430 years.
And it came to pass at the end of the 430 years, even the self-same day, it came to pass that all the hosts of Yahweh went out from the land of Egypt.

Acts 7:23-30 " And when Moses was full 40 years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended him, and avenged him the was oppressed, and smote the Egyptian:
For he supposed his brothers would have understood how that God by his hand would deliver them…
29 Then Moses fled at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Midian…
30 And when 40 years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of Mt. Sinai an angel of Yahweh in a flame of fire in a bush."

Moses knew he was destined to deliver the Israelites, but Satan succeeded with Moses where he failed with Jesus. Satan used Moses righteous indignation at the oppression of his people to trigger Moses into action ten years early. The 400 years was not expired. This mistake gave the Israelites thirty extra years of bondage.

Jesus was tempted to shortcircuit God’s timetable. But he submitted to the Father’s timetable, and waited to be crowned after his death on resurrection Sunday.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, " Touch me not: for I am not yet ascended to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

Zec. 3 " And I saw Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of Yahweh, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. … Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments…
Take away the filthy garments from him…
Let them set a fair mitre upon his head…
For behold, I will bring forth my servant, the branch…
And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. "

Matt. 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "All hail. "
And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Jesus was not going to let men shortcircuit God’s path to victory. So he dismissed the crowd and began walking up the mountain. No doubt some followed and badgered him to reconsider, but he just kept on walking until the last follower could climb no more. Jesus stayed up above the madding crowd and prayed into the night.

Piper · 2020-01-21T10:48:56.238Z

Paul_Thomson:

Zec. 3 " And I saw Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of Yahweh, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. … Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments…
Take away the filthy garments from him…
Let them set a fair mitre upon his head…
For behold, I will bring forth my servant, the branch…
And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. "

The Day of the Lord was an historical event in time, not at the “end of time” (“end of time” is not a Biblical phrase).

Prophet Isaiah predicted that the Day in which the Lord would remove the filth of Zion and cleanse Israel would be the time of judgment upon Israel. Is 4:1.

This is also foretold by the prophet Zechariah as the time when Israel would look on the one that had been pierced and mourn. Zechariah also stated in 13 that “in that day,” - the day in which they would look on the one that was pierced, there would be great mourning. The mourning was not repentance, but judgment. The one they had slain was coming in judgment to avenge

Scripture calls the judgment of Israel for shedding the blood of God’s martyrs, “The Day of The Lord.”

Jesus said the guilt went all the way back to Abel, at the beginning of creation. He said "guilt for all the blood shed, “from the foundation of the world”, was laid at the feet of Israel.

Matthew 24 "…they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

John 5:19 "Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all that he himself is doing; and greater works than these will he show him, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

Jehovah had come in judgment many times in the past. In times past, how had the Father judged? How had God’s Son seen His Father judge?

A few examples: At the destruction of Babylon by the Assyrians in Is 12…it was called “The Day of the Lord.” Jehovah rode on a “swift cloud,” and came into Egypt to judge the wicked. Isaiah 19. By the Medes, Is 13, it was called “The Day of Jehovah.” Jehovah coming against Babylon in Is 6. They were events in history. “The Day of the Lord was an event in history.”

Like Father, Like Son…On Clouds of Glory. That event happened in the first century 2000 years ago when Jerusalem was destroyed.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-21T13:56:57.195Z

Hi, Piper. I’m unsure how you arrive at the conclusion that Zechariah saying “in one day” equates to “the day of the Lord”.

Piper · 2020-01-22T04:44:49.560Z

Paul_Thomson:

Hi, Piper. I’m unsure how you arrive at the conclusion that Zechariah saying “in one day” equates to “the day of the Lord”.

Paul. I don’t know how to separate the two. Read on down from chapter 3 to 14.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-22T05:01:09.181Z

Chapter 14 is separated from chapter 3 by ten whole chapters and is a completely different prophecy given at a completely different time.

To identify "it will be one day… " in chapter 14 as the same event as "… in one day… " in chapter 14, seems a long stretch.

Which details in chapter 3 and chapter 14 identify them in your mind as events that will occur on the same day?

Piper · 2020-01-23T14:27:07.817Z

Paul_Thomson:

Chapter 14 is separated from chapter 3 by ten whole chapters and is a completely different prophecy given at a completely different time.

To identify "it will be one day… " in chapter 14 as the same event as "… in one day… " in chapter 14, seems a long stretch.

Which details in chapter 3 and chapter 14 identify them in your mind as events that will occur on the same day?

Zechariah’s prophecy focused on the work of “The Branch.” The Branch, 3:9, would be betrayed, 6:13, in the house of His friends, 13:6, and they would weigh out 30 pieces of silver, 11:12.

Isaiah 2-4 - “In that day.” It is the time when “the Branch” appears. The Branch is the shoot of Jesse…the Son given.

Isaiah 2:2 - In that day was the Last Days of old earthly Israel.

Isaiah 4,- On that day, the Branch of Yawyeh will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth will be the pride and adornment of the survivors of Israel. It’s all about people with Isaiah, not land.

The order of Isaiah - The mountain of the house of God was to be raised up. The Branch was to be beautiful and rescue His people. He foretold of judgment that would remove enemies and protect His faithful.

According to Jeremiah, The Branch became a proper name of the ONE who would become King and Priest.

The living waters of Zechariah. 14:8 "On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem,…" The river of life would flow from New Jerusalem after the Lord had come in judgment on Old Jerusalem. 14:1-8… vs 11 “And it shall be inhabited, for there shall be no more curse; Jerusalem shall dwell in security.”

Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

Not literal water, eternal life water.

John 4:13 Jesus said to her, “Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 7:37 "…Jesus stood up and proclaimed, “If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink. 38 He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.’”

There is no waiting.

Rev 22:1 “Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb”

-17 “The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let him who hears say, “Come.” And let him who is thirsty come, let him who desires take the water of life without price.”

This is the “day of our Lord,” in the “year of our Lord.” It’s been that way for almost 2000 years.

Glenn47 · 2020-01-23T16:17:17.705Z

If you answered their question like that, they would wonder about you. They would also wonder about “How’s it goin, bro?”

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-26T09:39:39.175Z

John 6:16 And when evening was now come, his disciples went down to the sea,
17 and entered into a ship, and went over the sea towards Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus had not come to them.

Before commenting further, I will follow this with a combination of the four Gospels’ various versions of the events of John 6: 1-17

Paul_Thomson · 2020-01-26T10:42:23.926Z

(Luke) And the apostles when they returned, told all they had done (Mark) and taught. And he said, "Come apart to a desert place and rest a while. For there were many coming and going and they had no respite so much as to eat.
(Luke) And he took them and went aside privately (Matt) by ship, (Luke) into a desert place belonging to the city of Bethsaida.
(Mark) And the people saw them departing, and many recognised him and ran there on foot out of the cities, and outran them and gathered together to him.
(John) A great many followed him because they saw the miracles he did on the diseased.
And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there sat with his disciples. And the Passover of the Jews was near.
(Matt) And Jesus went forth and (John) lifted his eyes and (Matt) saw a great multitude (John) coming to him, (Matt) and was moved with compassion (Luke) and received them, (Matt) and healed their sick, (Mark) because they were as sheep without a shepherd.
(Matt) and he began to teach them many things, (Luke) speaking to them of the Kingdom of God.
(Matt) When the day was now far spent, (John) when Jesus lifted his eyes he saw a great multitude coming to him, (Matt) his disciples came to him and said, "This is a desert place, and the day is now almost over. Send them away that they may go into the countryside round about and into the villages to buy themselves bread (Luke) and lodge.
(Matt) For they have nothing to eat.
(Luke) We are in the desert.
(Mark) He answered, “They need not depart. You give then something to eat.”
(John) And he said to Philip, " Where can we buy bread that these may eat? " This he said to test him, for he himself knew what he would do.
(Mark) "Shall we go and buy 200 penny worth of bread and give it to them to eat?
(John) 200 penny worth of bread is not enough for them that everyone of them take s little.
(Mark) He says, " How many loaves do you have? Go and see. "
(John) One disciple, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, says to him, " There is a boy here with five loaves of barley bread and two small fish. But what are they among so many?
(Luke) we have no more than five loaves and two fish, unless we buy food for all these people. For there were about 5000 men.
(Matt) He says, "Bring them to me. "
(Mark) He commanded them to make them all sit down in fifties and hundreds on the green grass.
(John) And Jesus took the loaves and when he had given thanks (Matt) he blessed and broke and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
(Mark) And the two fish he divided among them, *(John) as much as they wanted.
When they were filled, he said to his disciples, “Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.” Therefore they gathered together and filled twelve baskets with the scraps of barley bread remaining above what they had eaten. *
(Matt) Immediately he constrained his disciples to get into a boat and go across to Bethsaida while he dismissed the people.
(John) Then those men, when they had. seen the miracle Jesus did, said, "This is that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus perceived that they would come and seize him to make him a king, (Mark) when he had sent them away, (John) he departed into a mountain alone.
And when evening was now come, his disciples went down to the sea,
and entered into a ship, and went over the sea towards Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus had not come to them.

Jesus sent them to Bethsaida. They did not want to go there without Jesus, as Bethsaida was very resistant to Jesus’ message and ministry. When Jesus did not return to them, the disciples headed instead for a more hospitable destination, Capernaum. Does that remind you of an old Testament prophet?

Paul_Thomson · 2020-02-03T13:46:13.360Z

So, Jesus tells the apostles to go Bethsaida, dismisses the crowd and escapes into privacy by climbing a mountain further than any of the crowd is willing to follow. Bethsaids is a city excited by miracles, but argumentative, unrepentant and resistent against the Lord’s teachings. The disciples don’t want to go there without Jesus backing them up, so wait for him to return. It gets toward dark without Jesus returning, so they head off across the lake, but go instead to the more hospitable Capernaum. Their disobedience and prejudice is met with the opposition of a contrary wind and mounting waves. Before the ringleader
volunteers to be thrown overboard to appears God’s wrath, Grace and Truth comes to them walking on the waves. They receive him and are immediately in Capernaum, not Bethsaida.

Why did Jesus send them ahead to Bethsaida, but not take them there once he was reunited with them?

What would have happened had they gone to Bethsaida as commanded? The Bethsaidans would have been all abuzz about their miraculous meal, maybe asking the disciples how he did it? The rebuke Jesus gives them in Capernaum the next day could have been given by the disciples in Bethsaida.
"Why are you chasing Jesus around to see his miracles but refusing to follow his teaching. What he is teaching is way more important than having our stomachs filled for one day. "

They had chickened out of having that confrontation tonight, so Jesus took them to Capernaum where they could rest a little, and Jesus could have that conversation with the rubber-neckers on the morrow.