[quote=“Meriweather”]
Two thoughts on this. First, New Testament writings don’t cover every incident and every community–only a very few.[/quote] I find it very telling that the ones they DO cover are those where the SINGULAR name of Jesus is used just as Peter preached on the day of Pentecost after the Holy Ghost fell on him. Seems…I dunno…important.
Acts 8:14 confirms that the two are indeed separate events just as Peter declared them to be in Acts 2:28–repent, then be baptized, THEN you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Notice he didnt say “and you shall HAVE received.”
Death, burial, resurrection
Repentance, baptism, infilling of the Holy Ghost
[quote=“Meriweather”]
Catholics believe our first experience with the Holy Spirit is in our baptism.[/quote]With what evidence?
Five times in the book of Acts we read of people being filled with the Holy Spirit, in every instance “began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” According to Scripture, this IS the evidence; and that has to be our litmus, not feelings, not tradition, but what the Word says,
Isn’t it also telling that both accounts are written by the same author? Meanwhile, we do have at least two authors of that time who witness to, “In the name of the Father…”
I believe it to be the same One true God. This God in fact took redemption so seriously, He became flesh (John 1) and died on the cross for us, and gave EXPLICIT instruction on how that redemption process was to be applied to our lives. If He took it that seriously, then to not take His instructions seriously would absolutely put your soul in jeopardy. That was the entire purpose of the cross, to give a way out. Matthew 7 tells us this IS fact: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I agree that it does not all happen instantly–poof, over and completed. In fact, it is the beginning. Perhaps it can be compared to the Parable of the Sower and the Seed?
Frankly, I am puzzled by what the Samarians felt they had (if anything) and what they felt they were lacking.
And by “soul in jeopardy,” you mean people will go to Hell even though they thought they were doing God’s will when they said, “In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost?”
I was baptized when I was about 50 days old. I was a mere toddler, when I first began seeking my own experience/relationship with God. If I was not being led by the Spirit into this search, then by whom?
Baptism is an invitation, and initiation into the Kingdom of God, a Kingdom that begins in this life and from there stretches into eternity. Is not life in the Kingdom the sign, even the evidence?
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Baptism comes after repentance. How could you, at 50 days old have repented of ANYthing? How could you have been guilty of anything to repent for? You couldnt have and werent.
The instructions were this: Repent and be baptized. Let’s look at the word repent: The Greek here is metanoeō, It means “feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one’s wrongdoing or sin.”
How could you have repented at 50 days old? For what sins did you repent? What remorse did you feel? After you repented, how did you come to the conclusion that you needed to be baptized? What led you to this conclusion at 50 days old?
If baptism is an invitation, how did you have the facilities at 50 days old to accept this invitation?
Getting back to the Holy Trinity, Elizabeth Cady Stanton’s Woman’s Bible says the following:
“It is evident from the language that there was consultation in the Godhead, and that the masculine and feminine elements were equally represented. Scott in his commentaries says, “this consultation of the Gods is the origin of the doctrine of the trinity.” But instead of three male personages, as generally reprsented, a Heavenly Father, Mother an Son would seem more rational.”
For those who believe in the Trinity, could it be a Father, Mother and Son?
And on a different note, should God even be referred to as a He? (Or a She?) Wouldn’t God be a-sexual?
Repentance (first and foremost) means turning away from one thing and towards another. My parents and Godparents turned me from one direction to another. Before he was married, my dad had not grown up with any religion. He chose to become Catholic, and he and my mother turned me in the direction of God, away from no belief in God.
I am willing to bet there was a number of sins you had not committed prior to your baptism. Do you understand where I am going with this? Does your baptism mean that you never repented (turned from) sins you never had committed and perhaps never would? I was turned away from sin and to God.
My family had joined, had been initiated into the Body of Christ. Sure, one can argue I had no choice of family, no choice of belief/non-belief, but then, they had no choice, either. There I was, right in their midst!
Jesus said to let the little children come to him–and he embraced them, and said the Kingdom was made up with such as these. I was one of those little children.
Wisdom, Church, and yes, even Spirit is often referenced with the feminine pronoun. As far as anyone has ever been able to determine, God has no gender. We humans have a tradition of assigning gender–for example, boats are often referred to as “she”. Spanish (a Romance language) illustrates this well. Every object in Spanish has been assigned a gender.
Keep in mind this gender does not indicate sex or a sexual preference. It was simply how it was done.
You were not. These children in this verse were brought to Jesus for him to pray for them. The disciples thought they were being a bother, Jesus said dont forbid them to come. This wasnt about salvation. Even if it were, Jesus said forbid them not to COME, He didnt say forbid them not to be forced. To “come” is a voluntary decision.
Apparently I no longer know how to break up and reply to separate portions of a quote.
