Are there any areas of agreement between the left and the right these days?

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:13:38.649Z

Not wrong. Health insurance is not health care. This should be obvious but I can spell it out.

Health care is providing medical services to individuals.

Health insurance is how it’s paid for.

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:14:37.193Z

Show us the criminal penalties under HillaryCare please.

WuWei · 2018-10-10T23:14:48.880Z

NuffSaid:

True, but the leading Senator of the opposition party never came right out and announced it.

He basically was saying “We will block every bill, stop legislation, do everything in our power to make this guy look weak or incompetent, even if we sacrifice the good of the country to do it.”

No, he was basically saying their goal was to limit Obama to one term.

WildRose · 2018-10-10T23:15:14.769Z

It took over the health care industry completely mandating every aspect of the industry not just the cost of insurance.

WuWei · 2018-10-10T23:15:56.504Z

dantes:

Health insurance is not health care.

Affordable _CARE_ Act.

WildRose · 2018-10-10T23:16:19.599Z

Both civil and criminal penalties.

WSJ

Where Clinton Will Take ObamaCare

As with HillaryCare, a single payer, national health-care system has always been the goal.

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:17:04.157Z

What kind of mandates are you referring to?

WildRose · 2018-10-10T23:24:40.507Z

Every aspect of care was to be regulated, delivered, and controlled and the same for how insurance was to be handled.

The Heritage Foundation

A Guide to the Clinton Health Plan

This study was originally a Heritage "Talking Points".

It was a complete takeover of the industry by the federal gov’t.

Roxiebelle · 2018-10-10T23:29:16.223Z

Truman proposed national health insurance which is different than health care.

A national insurance system doesn’t equate to good health care, it equates to 10 beds per ward county hospitals , less medical doctors, nurses and staff and long waiting times just to see a primary care doctor, longer times to see a specialist so the “insurance” is utterly useless because if you have a serious illness that need’s immediate care you’re not going to get it, you’re going to be DEAD clutching your Government issued insurance card!

We’ve got to get Government OUT of the health care business and deregulate Health Insurance companies so they can really give good competitive pricing for those who want catastrophic insurance only, family insurance plans, and those with pre existing conditions.

In other words the free market!

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:33:01.300Z

As usual, conservatives lied about these bills to scare people.

No one limited benefits, only provided baseline for it. No one was going to be fined for providing more services than needed. The criminal penalties were for providers demanding money for services otherwise provided by their insurance.

You know, fraud.

WildRose · 2018-10-10T23:34:02.498Z

Horse hockey, that was the whole purpose of he National Health Advisory Board. The penalties also applied to doc’s providing nonstandard/approved services for cash.

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:42:14.082Z

Total hyperbole. Be specific. How did it affect the practice of medicine?

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:45:36.352Z

Totally bogus. It prevented them from lying about the effectiveness of non-standard treatments but not for providing them.

WildRose · 2018-10-10T23:47:41.686Z

Both of your above posts are garbage and you’ve already been provided the links you demanded.

There was no aspect of healthcare or health insurance that was not going to be completely under control of the Federal Gov’t had her plan been approved.

dantes · 2018-10-10T23:59:39.246Z

You cited right wing talking heads.

The same nonsense that crowed about death panels.

I actually know something about the bill. Cite the provisions or don’t. I don’t care. I’m not convinced you know very much about the bill or the practice of medicine anyway.

WildRose · 2018-10-11T00:00:09.498Z

I cited the facts which you cannot refute.

dantes · 2018-10-11T00:18:57.005Z

You cited no facts, just opinion pieces. Their opinions were incorrect.

It’s like claiming that the ACA has death panels and citing Sarah Palin.

Private_Idaho · 2018-10-11T00:33:44.628Z

I’m a conservative and generally very libertarian but I support government-funded healthcare for all. The current system of private insurance tends to benefit employees of larger companies, where premiums are more affordable. The self-employed and employees of small companies have a much harder time finding affordable insurance and are at the mercy of the Obamacare exchanges.

It’s inevitable and the logical solution would be to extend the Medicare coverage to everyone.

I’ve written here before that I regard maintaining the health of citizens, and therefore the workforce, is a necessity and among those essential services such as schools, roads and infrastructure in which government should have a central role in providing. We can argue about details, the ways and the means, but I am tired of hearing about the various “fixes” to the private insurance model typically proposed by Republicans.

I don’t know what Rand Paul’s views on the subject are, I assume he’s against it, but it is the Obamacare government subsidies to private insurance companies that he rages about. He has piles of research which he claims show huge profits by health insurance companies. A single payer system would cut out the insurance company middleman so he should he should certainly prefer it to the current system.

Not that I’d find too much Republican support, but polls are showing a growing number of voters will support single payer. Once in while the bitter partisans in Congress do get together and solve a problem but usually only in the midst of a crisis. That crisis is healthcare is coming eventually.

reflechissez · 2018-10-11T02:56:20.829Z

This is a good post.

FlameHeart · 2018-10-11T03:01:05.863Z

What if the responsibility of heath care, being in government hands, falls into the hands of someone who is corrupt? I can see all kinds of disasters happening…but please don’t get me wrong, I do think that healthcare needs a revamp, just that single payer has a significant drawback that could destroy the lives of millions.