You do know that not a viruses are created equal, right? A flu vaccine isn’t gonna protect you against HIV.
WuWei
22
How big a risk?
What’s your proposal? Vaccinate only the most vulnerable? You do realize that many of these new cases are young people?
What do you believe to be medically true about the vaccines?
WuWei
23
Based on your research, where would you put those odds?
And a COVID vaccine developed based on the original strains will not prevent you from getting the Delta variant. The new variants are likely to be even more resistant.
And let’s not forget that there is no way to predict how COVID-19 is gonna affect each individual. Comb through the data and you’re gonna find triathletes that have died from this thing, and overweight chain smokers that stayed asymptomatic.
And with 99% of the severe cases and deaths being unvaccinated I’m putting my money on the vaccine.
tzu
27
Bill, let’s just get the juicy stuff out of the way. A vaccine mandate is/would be coercive.
What I personally wonder about is why you don’t question, examine or look into why the coercive path is becoming more and more likely.
I know, I know: gummint bad.
But, look past that just for a breath or two: this is an actual health crisis, and grown adults aren’t governing themselves. They’re the ones making mandates ever closer to a reality.
tzu
28
The mRna shots are very effective against Delta, Bill. Sputnik and SinoVac, not so much.
Personally I got vaccinated, but I am not a healthy 20-year-old.
The best evidence is that benefits of vaccination are in the form of reduced risk of serious illness. The vaccinated can still transmit the virus to others, and the benefits appear to going down rapidly with the development of new resistant strains.
I see no justification to coerce people to get vaccinated since the risks and benefits are almost exclusively to the person getting the vaccination. This is a question of person liberty and freedom to make medical decisions.
Dr. Bosshe’s point is that vaccinating the whole population favors the development of resistant viruses. That makes sense to me since viruses that can bypass immunity have an evolutionary advantage. It also means that the government’s push for forced vaccinations is probably not in the best interest of public health in addition to assaulting individual rights.
Forcing healthy 20-year-olds to get vaccinated may well end up killing vaccinated grannies in the long term.
tzu
30
“Dr. Bosshe’s point is that vaccinating the whole population favors the development of resistant viruses.”
He is exactly wrong, then. Dangerous variants don’t emerge from reduced transmission. They are a function of unchecked spread.
Viruses aren’t organisms, Bill. Survival pressures that generally apply to organisms don’t work to make viruses more fit. The condition of fitness for a naked replicator is widespread transmission, not chokepoints, bottlenecks and other obstacles to replication.
I heard a pediatric doctor say today on the tube that we should not be forcing children to use masks because there has not been adequate control groups tested over time to make any recommendations. And another doctor on the air with him that cited five studies that showed that the use of masks limited the amount of infections in children. Both made good cases. But the bottom line is that we may not have the time to wait until adequate studies are done and reviewed. The majority of doctors I have heard say that this is the time where we need to be using any and all mitigation resources available.
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Leaky vaccines allow the virus to survive. The COVID vaccinations are very leaky at this point. The Pfizer vaccine is only about 40% effective, and Moderna is about 70%.
Mutations that further bypass the immunity from the vaccine are more likely to replicate. The effectiveness of the vaccines will continue to drop as natural selection favors the most resistant strains. Universal vaccination should accelerate this evolution.
WuWei
33
It’s possible. Is that “likely” based on science?
What’s your alternative proposal?
tzu
35
WuWei
36
How far are you willing to go?
WuWei
37
Because it is highly likely to keep you from being a burden on the shared healthcare system.
tzu
38
I’m not the problem, Sneak.
I’m a vaccinated past-middle age loner who spends more time in the wilderness with my dog than anything else. I don’t like mask breath, but my wife is on immunosuppresants, so I wear masks in stores because killing her is not an option. I don’t group up with strangers to hoot and holler over helmetball, or sing songs of praise in a compact environment.
Also, I’m a damned adult.
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WuWei
39
I’ll re-word; how far are you willing to let your government go in your name.
tzu
40
I’m comfortable with traditional policies: private entities not pre-emptively forbidden from protecting themselves, and mandates for all public sector, first responder, health and educational employees. Plus the usual foreign travel and soldier reqs. Once approval extends to all school age children, mandates for enrollment, no exemptions for parochial institutions except the existing high-bar conscience ones.
If it’s good for TB, MMR and meningitis, it’s good for covid.