ARE EV's Greener than Gas cars?

[JimmyC]

Yes, those are electric. Are they more prone to catch fire than gas-powered buses?

[Samm]

Lithium-ion batteries can spontaneously ignite, whereas LNG busses require a separate source of ignition to burn. But to answer your question, I don’t know which is more prone to catch fire.

[Cratic3947]

Yes, EV’s are not even that safe. They are a fire hazard. Worse than the Pinto. The swamp does not care. They are making money on mandates as usual.

[Eagle-Keeper]

Here’s something to add to this discussion:

Propane Trucks Accelerate Decarbonization

A new comparative analysis analyzes the carbon footprint of medium-duty and heavy-duty (MD-HD) engine vehicles powered by propane and electricity. The analysis, “Decarbonization of MD-HD Vehicles with Propane,” found that propane-fueled MD- HD vehicles are a lower carbon footprint solution in 38 US states and Washington, DC, when compared to MD- HD electric vehicles (EVs) charged from the electrical grid.

Fifteen states and Washington, DC, have proposed full electrification of MD-HD trucks by 2050 with a target of 30% “zero-emission” vehicle sales by 2030. The rationale behind the proposals is based on the assumption that the electrical grid will be fully decarbonized by that time. Likewise, policy based on exhaust carbon dioxide (CO2eq) emissions alone, as opposed to life-cycle analysis results, misses the full picture. The analysis shows, however, that the promise of electrification gets conflated with actual decarbonization.

[Cratic3947]

@Eagle-Keeper

Here’s something to add to this discussion:

https://propane.com/environment/stories/propane-trucks-accelerate-decarbonization/?utm_campaign=p542-trucksdecarbonization&utm_source=programmatic&utm_medium=display&utm_term=static&utm_content=yahoo-1p

A new comparative analysis analyzes the carbon footprint of medium-duty and heavy-duty (MD-HD) engine vehicles powered by propane and electricity. The analysis, “Decarbonization of MD-HD Vehicles with Propane,” found that propane-fueled MD- HD vehicles are a lower carbon footprint solution in 38 US states and Washington, DC, when compared to MD- HD electric vehicles (EVs) charged from the electrical grid.

Fifteen states and Washington, DC, have proposed full electrification of MD-HD trucks by 2050 with a target of 30% “zero-emission” vehicle sales by 2030. The rationale behind the proposals is based on the assumption that the electrical grid will be fully decarbonized by that time. Likewise, policy based on exhaust carbon dioxide (CO2eq) emissions alone, as opposed to life-cycle analysis results, misses the full picture. The analysis shows, however, that the promise of electrification gets conflated with actual decarbonization.

Yes, that’s the game the EPA plays. Comparing tail pipe emissions when an EV does not have a tail pipe because the emissions are made else where. Nice to see people are finally understanding the life cycle idea. Which they should apply to windmills and solar panels also.

[Camp]

[floydefisher]

This gets even better.

California's electrical grid has an EV problem

Remember when I kept talking about how electric cars were going to literally spike the price of electricity?

Imagine how much your electric bill would go up if you were running 3 central air conditioning units on your home. That is what charging an electric car effectively does in terms of electricity use in your home.

It’s no longer my pet theory: it’s now a fact.

[Eagle-Keeper]

@PeterGriffin

Who cares? Manufacturers are jumping on electric because of decreased labor costs so it’s coming.

Don’t speak too soon on that:

EVs No Longer an Economic Alternative to ICEs As Supercharging Rates Go...

Tesla, the company that sells the most EVs in the U.S., has aggressively raised prices in the past months. The main reason was raw materials scarcity and price spikes

It costs money to get the raw materials.

[JayJay]

When you read that carefully, they are strictly talking about supercharging costs at peak hours, and so yes for a class of individuals that doesn’t have access to home charging, it’s going to be more expensive.

And imo Tesla is gouging its customers…not a great business model…but I guess Elon has to fund his ego ventures.

My local DC fast charge rates still range between 24 cents and 32 cents a kWh. Level 2 (240 V, 32 amp AC) I’m paying 12-16 cents a kWh.

I drove 150 miles a day to and from work 2-3x a week. I’m paying about $80 total in one month to do that. Gas would be WAY more expensive than that.

You don’t need to buy a Tesla. Yes you will benefit from a better supercharging infrastructure but there are other options out there. And I don’t use my EV to go on long trips.

[Eagle-Keeper]

I get that, but I highlighted the raw materials cost aspect since futuristically that’s a huge unknown. If we think that the issue we’re facing with supply of crude oil is bad just wait till everyone needs electric vehicles. At least the US is a significant player in crude oil, not so much the rare earth element market, correct?

[JayJay]

@Eagle-Keeper

I get that, but I highlighted the raw materials cost aspect since futuristically that’s a huge unknown. If we think that the issue we’re facing with supply of crude oil is bad just wait till everyone needs electric vehicles. At least the US is a significant player in crude oil, not so much the rare earth element market, correct?

Oh I agree…when the cost of energy goes up, the cost of everything goes up.

We can be a player in lithium and the rare earths. But we better get started on it.