Antifa then and now

Bill.in.PA · 2019-12-01T14:08:46.629Z

I was surprised to find that Antifa dates to the 1930s in Germany and was short for “Antifaschistische Aktion”, a group that was controlled by the German Communist Party. By the late 1920s, the German Communists were Stalinist and supported by the Soviet Union. Antifa labeled anyone who supported free enterprise as “fascist” and most of its violent opposition was directed against the ruling Social Democrat Party (SDP). It was relatively unconcerned about the Nazis and sometimes cooperated with them to counter the SDP. When the Nazis took power, the leaders of Antifa went into exile in the Soviet Union, and many of them were killed in Stalinist purges. For details see:

en.wikipedia.org

Antifaschistische Aktion

Germany Italy Spain (Spanish Civil War)

Antifa was closely affiliated with Roter Frontkämpferbund, Communist paramilitary organization that the ruling SDP banned in 1929:

en.wikipedia.org

Roter Frontkämpferbund

Germany Italy Spain (Spanish Civil War) Albania

Do you think that it is just a coincidence that modern the Antifa chose the same name as the former German Stalinist group? Or do you think that the name selection was intentional?

Do you see parallels between the old German Antifa and the modern group?

SixFoot · 2019-12-01T14:10:35.229Z

Bill.in.PA:

Do you think that it is just a coincidence that modern the Antifa chose the same name as the former German Stalinist Party?

I think they all got tingles when libs decided on that name.

Bill.in.PA · 2019-12-01T14:21:45.562Z

Yep.

I find it especially ironic that so many of the exiled Antifa leaders were killed in the home of the “workers paradise” that they had fought for. Be careful what you wish for, sometimes you get it.

Nemesis · 2019-12-01T14:31:40.806Z

The biggest misconception of Antifa is that it somehow has a central leadership structure. Any collection of individuals can band together and brand themselves as Antifa.

While I can sympathize with their message I cannot condone violence which is why I will never be associated with them. If I attend a political rally or other demonstration and anyone is there claiming to be from Antifa then I will be going home - see how easy it is to separate yourself from reprehensible human beings even if you might share similar concerns.

Bill.in.PA · 2019-12-01T15:55:41.089Z

I am glad you do not support Antifa violence. Do politicians have a responsibility to condemn Antifa?

For example, should Governor Inslee of Washington specifically condemn Antifa and not simply state platitudes about violence is bad after an Antifa gunman attacked an ICE facility in Tacoma?

Here is Inslee’s statement:

"Along with many Americans, I object with every fiber of my being to Donald Trump’s inhumane treatment of immigrants in America. But if today’s attack was motivated by opposition to the federal government’s actions, it was totally unacceptable. Violence is not acceptable.

"Our democracy is strong and we are a resilient people. But it is, again, unacceptable to turn to violence. Hate crimes are on the rise, as is divisive and incendiary rhetoric.

"We must be better than that and find non-violent ways of pursuing the better world we want, as many groups are doing.

Police kill armed man at an ICE center in Tacoma Politics

Continued outpouring of support from anarchists and Antifa for the apparent terrorist attack in Tacoma: “We find his actions inspiring. The vehicles outside the detention facility are used to forcibly remove people from their homes and deport them, often to situations where they will face severe danger or death. Those vehicles being destroyed is only a start of what is needed,” the Puget Sound Anarchists wrote. “We wish the fires Will set had freed all the inmates and razed the entire Northwest…

Note that several Antifa-related organizations (including the Puget Sound John Brown Gun Club and Puget Sound Anarchists) specifically praised the actions of the attacker. The attacker appeared in video from a favorable CNN story about the Gun Club, where he was a member. Yet I have seen nothing about Inslee or CNN condemning these organizations.

Does that need to change? Does silence equate with tacit support?

Nemesis · 2019-12-01T16:20:07.377Z

Of course politicians need to unequivocally condemn violence with no ifs and buts and that includes Trump.

However on this forum we have seen all the twisting and turning Trumps supporters have done on the “good people on both sides” comment.

Bill.in.PA · 2019-12-01T16:43:45.040Z

Contrary to misleading reports in the media, Trump’s “both sides” comments were referring to people who peacefully protested about Civil War monuments. During the same news conference, Trump made it clear that he condemned Neo-Nazis and white nationalists:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/03/21/trump_didnt_call_neo-nazis_fine_people_heres_proof_139815.html

Trump repeated the condemnation a short time later:
Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

USA TODAY

Read President Trump's full statement on Charlottesville violence

Here is the transcript of the president's remarks on Charlottesville

When are Governor Inslee and other Democratic presidential candidates make similar statements against Antifa and leftist groups that openly support violence?

Where are the calls on Antifa and its supporters to openly reject Stalinism?

Nemesis · 2019-12-02T00:42:24.566Z

Bill.in.PA:

Contrary to misleading reports in the media, Trump’s “both sides” comments were referring to people who peacefully protested about Civil War monuments. During the same news conference, Trump made it clear that he condemned Neo-Nazis and white nationalists:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”
Trump Didn't Call Neo-Nazis 'Fine People.' Here's Proof. | RealClearPolitics

Trump repeated the condemnation a short time later:
Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Transcript of Donald Trump's remarks on Charlottesville violence

When are Governor Inslee and other Democratic presidential candidates make similar statements against Antifa and leftist groups that openly support violence?

Where are the calls on Antifa and its supporters to openly reject Stalinism?

Ah yes the old clarification statement approach.

Why should Antifa reject stalinism? If someone is free to embrace white supremacy in the US then that same freedom applies to any other dogma.

I might not like it but thats up to an individual.

Yes they should condemn violence but I cant force them to do it. The fact you keep asking me the same question tells me that you didnt expect me to be so black and white about and non partisan.

Unlike so many on this forum I dont make excuses for politicians that i might support.

Jezcoe · 2019-12-02T00:57:10.503Z

Bill.in.PA:

Contrary to misleading reports in the media, Trump’s “both sides” comments were referring to people who peacefully protested about Civil War monuments.

The Unite the Right rally was explicitly a white Supremacist rally put on by white supremacists, for white supremacists, featuring white supremacist speakers, for the cause of furthering white supremacy.

They are NAZIs.

Good people don’t march with NAZIs.

Bill.in.PA · 2019-12-02T01:07:17.873Z

A big issue I see is a massive double standard about responsibility of politicians to disassociate themselves from violent extremists.

Trump specifically and repeatedly rejected white supremacists, yet many in the media continue to pretend that he somehow supports them.

Antifa is named after a violent Stalinist organization from the Nazi era, yet no one in the mainstream media seems to care a whit about that. Democrats are free to blame Antifa violence on their victims, and Democrat leaders are never called to repudiate Antifa or Stalinism. How convenient!

Nemesis · 2019-12-02T01:25:02.583Z

Bill.in.PA:

A big issue I see is a massive double standard about responsibility of politicians to disassociate themselves from violent extremists.

Trump specifically and repeatedly rejected white supremacists, yet many in the media continue to pretend that he somehow supports them.

Antifa is named after a violent Stalinist organization from the Nazi era, yet no one in the mainstream media seems to care a whit about that. Democrats are free to blame Antifa violence on their victims, and Democrat leaders are never called to repudiate Antifa or Stalinism. How convenient!

Sorry mate but many white supremists, racists and bigots are attracted to Trump and his messaging, he has never come out and said he does not want their support. He is a politician and politicians are not going to alienate any of their potential voters.

This is why I never have or ever will put a politician on a pedestal. Unlike those who support Trump no matter what, I am critical of all politicians equally and call out any politician when they ■■■■ up.

Bill.in.PA · 2019-12-02T01:45:15.810Z

Please provide an example of Democrats specifically condemning Antifa. The usual formula is something like Gov. Inslee used, which merely says violence is not acceptable in general, with no mention of Antifa or similar groups.

For example, can you imagine a Democratic presidential candidate using condemning Antifa specifically and categorically? Here is example wording based using Trump-style language:

Stalinism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including Antifa, Anarchists, John Brown Gun Clubs and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. . .

Nemesis · 2019-12-02T02:10:51.091Z

Bill.in.PA:

Please provide an example of Democrats specifically condemning Antifa. The usual formula is something like Gov. Inslee used, which merely says violence is not acceptable in general, with no mention of Antifa or similar groups.

For example, can you imagine a Democratic presidential candidate using condemning Antifa specifically and categorically? Here is example wording based using Trump-style language:

Stalinism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including Antifa, Anarchists, John Brown Gun Clubs and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. . .

What the heck are you on about? I have told you they should condemn it, i never said they did. Furthermore they are wrong for not condemning violence perpetrated by groups who identify as Antifa.