An interesting sociological phenomenon that exacerbates income inequality

WuWei · 2020-07-27T14:53:45.179Z

Rates were also higher among the children of teen moms, and among children whose parents have a relatively large gap between their ages.

Like I said…

No evidence.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T14:54:17.786Z

WuWei:

Eagle-Keeper:

There is evidence that the reason for the surge in children with Autism is due to people having children at older ages.

Good Lord. No there isn’t.

In hindsight my choice of wording was not the best but regarding the connection:

“The researchers also reported that the chance is 50 percent higher when the parents are in their 40s or 50s.”

Healthline – 21 Apr 20

Children Born to Older Parents Have 50% Higher Chance of Autism

Researchers say the age of a child's grandparents may also play a role in the chance of having autism spectrum disorder.

WuWei · 2020-07-27T14:54:48.889Z

Correlation, not causation.

Toll_Collector · 2020-07-27T14:57:25.655Z

I’m not sure it’s either. It’s so common that I believe it has to be something else. My wife for example is neither of those things, and had I met her 5-10 years later, when she got her degree and became management, I highly doubt she would have dated a toll collector or road maintenance person. It’s just not what women do.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T15:09:51.561Z

Hey everyone, I would like to ask to please refocus the discussion on the OP and hence to move on from the discussion regarding Autism. Thanks!

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T15:13:39.306Z

JayJay:

Eagle-Keeper:

I suppose college teaches that men who work trades are losers?

No colleges don’t teach that.

But IMHO access to college has had an unintended…and again IMHO unfortunate…knock on effect of causing many jobs that don’t need to have college degrees to require them.

So many people are getting locked out of many upwardly mobile jobs that they probably shouldn’t be locked out of.

I was inputting a bit a sarcasm there. Nonetheless the college degree phenomenon (or whatever it should be called) has indeed prompted a form of segregation to those who are “educated” to those who are not.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T15:31:53.959Z

Janet_Miller:

Maybe it’s not so much wanting to marry someone like oneself that’s the problem—those with similar socio-economic backgrounds, ideas about life and goals are more likely to connect—that’s the problem, but perhaps some looking for partners have expectations that are too high.

Knew a guy who was college educated and economically stable, a divorced, childless man who wanted to remain childless. Women turned him down for dates as someone balding & with a partial plate in his mouth.

Then they complain there aren’t any good men out there. He finally remarried a woman who had been a long time friend of his when they were both in unhealthy marriages.

I don’t want to come off as being too judgmental here, although one could. Nonetheless, there is a sociological shift with a segment of women today who will not date men who work in a trade. My wife and I know women who feel that way. What’s interesting in these articles that I have been reading is highlighting how more women go to college than men, but what they don’t acknowledge is that men have more economic opportunities outside of college that women don’t seek. Trades, that pay good money - many of which pay more than a typical undergrad degree - are dominated by men. Given that fact alone it’s no surprise more women are college than men.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T15:33:34.139Z

Janet_Miller:

I hope your child is doing well.

Thanks for your kind words. It is indeed a struggle physically and emotionally.

Janet_Miller · 2020-07-27T15:50:52.280Z

Sounds like the women you and your wife know are in the expecting too much, then complaining that there aren’t any good men out there phenomenon.

He’s available; stable; and there’s an attraction between us, but, he works a trade. He didn’t attend college.

They’ll be in this category for a long time with expectations like that. And these are financially stable men with trades they can take anywhere.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T19:07:09.102Z

Toll_Collector:

I’m not sure it’s either. It’s so common that I believe it has to be something else. My wife for example is neither of those things, and had I met her 5-10 years later, when she got her degree and became management, I highly doubt she would have dated a toll collector or road maintenance person. It’s just not what women do.

Why do you think she wouldn’t have? I mean what would be the reason’s from your perspective? Here’s my thoughts. Part of it is because people tend to identify themselves (who they are) by their occupation - “I’m a doctor” “I’m a lawyer” “I’m a scientist”, etc. This is also more of a modern sociological phenomenon. Back in the day what your occupation was was simply how you earned a living, for most people anyway. It’s almost as much about stature and recognition, if not more, than it is about money. Regarding my comment before that it’s being pompous or elitist, maybe their not the best terms but there is a component of it.

Toll_Collector · 2020-07-27T20:30:32.628Z

Eagle-Keeper:

Why do you think she wouldn’t have? I mean what would be the reason’s from your perspective? Here’s my thoughts. Part of it is because people tend to identify themselves (who they are) by their occupation - “I’m a doctor” “I’m a lawyer” “I’m a scientist”, etc. This is also more of a modern sociological phenomenon. Back in the day what your occupation was was simply how you earned a living, for most people anyway. It’s almost as much about stature and recognition, if not more, than it is about money. Regarding my comment before that it’s being pompous or elitist, maybe their not the best terms but there is a component of it.

I really can’t pinpoint it. I think it might have something to do with the past. There was a time when men worked and took care of the family. That was never a woman’s job unless she was alone.

You’ll see male Doctor’s marry female nurses. You’ll rarely if ever see it in reverse. As far as, I’m a doctor, I’m a lawyer, I’m a scientist, a lot of it is because of the frequency they are around each other just gives it a better chance. But as far as downgrading, men often do, women rarely do. I’m not sure as to why.

Guvnah · 2020-07-27T20:57:01.254Z

Eagle-Keeper:

“In fact, as author Liza Mundy writes in her book, The Richer Sex , Millennial women are increasingly finding two options when it comes to romance: marry down or don’t marry.”

Current educational/sociological paradigms create too many beta males. And/or males with little-to-no ambition.

That leaves a huge pool of “marry-down” candidates, and a dwindling pool of men who have better potential to make good fathers and husbands and providers.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-27T22:12:08.163Z

Toll_Collector:

You’ll see male Doctor’s marry female nurses. You’ll rarely if ever see it in reverse. As far as, I’m a doctor, I’m a lawyer, I’m a scientist, a lot of it is because of the frequency they are around each other just gives it a better chance. But as far as downgrading, men often do, women rarely do. I’m not sure as to why.

From a male perspective, at least in my opinion, most men value a woman’s appearance over everything else. So when a man seeks a mate he’s not thinking about what type of retirement nest egg they are going to build and by and large don’t care that much about the type of job she has. Women on the other hand tend to be more practical. How often do you see younger women with older (20-30 years) financially secure men compared to younger men with older financially secure women? So that’s part of the reason why women don’t typically downgrade (so to speak).

Janet_Miller · 2020-07-28T11:40:14.506Z

Not sure how men working skilled trades, as described in the O P, are considered “beta males”. But it does seem like feminism has helped generate a lot of men who aren’t too motivated to get ahead professionally.

Seems the attitude is, at least with some, why bother when the GF or wife can get good jobs with benefits? Those most likely to be bragging about earning more sitting at home on furlough were not women, or people at risk for poor outcome from COVID 19, but able bodied men.

Here is another disturbing sign: For First Time In 130 Years, More Young Adults Live With Parents Than With Partners : The Two-Way : NPR.

Young men are more likely to still be living with their parents than young women. And it doesn’t seem they’re as oriented towards marriage as they once were.

Guvnah · 2020-07-28T13:54:26.232Z

Janet_Miller:

Not sure how men working skilled trades, as described in the O P, are considered “beta males”.

I didn’t say they were.

In fact, I would suggest there is a far lower concentration of beta males in trade jobs.

The propagation of beta males coming out of college is one reason for the remaining options for women (which is what I quoted and responded to).

FloridaYankee · 2020-07-31T00:11:36.551Z

Toll_Collector:

Typically woman don’t downgrade when looking for a mate. They’ll try to find someone equal to or of higher status. I’m not trying to be a wise guy here, but when has it ever been different?

Never

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-07-31T02:17:03.063Z

FloridaYankee:

Toll_Collector:

Typically woman don’t downgrade when looking for a mate. They’ll try to find someone equal to or of higher status. I’m not trying to be a wise guy here, but when has it ever been different?

Never

He said typically. Generally speaking women want a man who is economically equal to them or higher. Also as studies have shown women who have a college degree are not interest in men who don’t have college degrees.

Toll_Collector · 2020-07-31T11:05:54.217Z

Eagle-Keeper:

He said typically. Generally speaking women want a man who is economically equal to them or higher. Also as studies have shown women who have a college degree are not interest in men who don’t have college degrees.

His post would indicate he was responding to the question.

Eagle-Keeper · 2020-08-15T14:34:03.315Z

Janet_Miller:

Young men are more likely to still be living with their parents than young women. And it doesn’t seem they’re as oriented towards marriage as they once were.

Not just this generation. I know a number of men in their 50’s and 60’s without jobs and living with their 80-90 year old mothers.

Janet_Miller · 2020-08-19T18:36:41.055Z

That’s pretty bad.

A little bit off topic but here goes:

Often cited are statistics showing many students who start college fail to finish. Those numbers are sometimes used as arguments against higher education.

I was wondering was this lady, who performed with Johnny Mathis, was still alive:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Deniece Williams

June Deniece Williams (née Chandler; born June 3, 1951) is an American singer. She has been described as "one of the great soul voices" by the BBC. She is best known for the songs "Free", "Silly", "It's Gonna Take a Miracle" and two Billboard Hot 100 No.1 singles "Let's Hear It for the Boy" and "Too Much, Too Little, Too Late" (with Johnny Mathis). Williams has won four Grammys with twelve nominations altogether. She (with Johnny Mathis) is also known for recording “Without Us” June Deniece C...

It’s interesting to note she started off wanting a career in nursing. I wouldn’t say I’m totally against higher education, but, IMO, I think those who fail to complete a degree , like Ms. Williams, deserve some credit.

They’ve started out with a goal, realized it wasn’t them, or, like her, that they weren’t particularly good students. & withdrew before they could get too far down the rabbit hole & in debt. In withdrawal they discovered work that didn’t necessarily require college.

Our host hasn’t exactly suffered not finishing college. He’s don’t pretty well for himself, really.