How many millions does the church keep out of poverty?
You keep talking about a few individuals. My father likely grew up poorer than your grandparents.
Your opinion is noted. I guess Jesus was similarly condescending as he also seemed to have the attitude that poor people couldn’t possibly help themselves as he told people to help the poor. So I count myself in pretty good company that your complaint against me applies to Jesus as well. I’ll stand with Jesus while you arrogantly tell poor people they should help themselves.
Meri, your bootstraps philosophy doesn’t work for everyone. SSI reduced elderly poverty dramatically. Your bootstrap philosophy kept elderly poverty rates high.
Your anecdotes don’t change facts.
1 Like
Good point. But when people are helping each other via an organization called “government” its bad. Cue “taxation is theft” or “free market efficiency”
Thank God we had government to help get rid of slavery and segregation instead of relying on the kind hearts and souls of humans
You have to be working to pay in anyway and your payout is relative to what you pay in, right? The bootstrap argument makes no sense.
How like you to miss the main point of my posts! Poor people were helping each other! Some were likely more poor than others, yet they carried on without government help. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, and he was noting that the rich had the poor right at their doorsteps and should be helping as well. Funny…Jesus never called for the government to help the poor, he called on people to help the poor–and each other. Nice that you stand with Jesus. I’m on my way to help the poor. I wonder where Jesus will be…
I never claimed it worked for everyone, but then nor does Social Security. In fact, some people who were told they could depend on it were in for a very rude awakening, weren’t they. In other words, not only does my philosophy not work for everyone, nor does yours. In fact, in another government program, some are noting that the government programs of the 1960s designed to help the Black community was the worse thing government could have done for that community since allowing slavery. I am not claiming that it did not work for some. I am saying it was a disaster for others.
The other thing you probably do not understand is that I am speaking of the FEDERAL government. I am a big fan of communities helping people at a local level using local groups, clubs, agencies.
I am an even bigger fan of teaching children they can be free and independent, that they can grow up to fend for themselves–and others. They do not need government to pay their way, or the way of others in their community. They have more than enough wherewithal to step up to that plate instead.
The government isnt made of robots
Except, you know, reality. Before the federal got involved it was terrible. Because the “communities” dont do anything. Until ya’ll walk the walk about “communities” it’s a moot point
You do realize that everyone pays into SS?
You just said that it was condescending to think the poor couldn’t help themselves and needed a handout. You accused me of that condescension. Here let me quote your words back to you:
If you assume that is my attitude because I want to give support to the poor then to be consistent you would have to think that is Jesus’ attitude as well since he also advocated helping the poor.
Note that your accusation of condescension makes no differentiation of where the aid comes from (govt or private). So by your definition, Jesus was being condescending.
It certainly isn’t Biblical to claim govt should not provide aid. It is merely political.
1 Like
Nobody in her family accepts social security. No bootstrapper ever would.
Back up. Neither of us are saying the poor should not be helped. The difference in perspective is in who should be helping the poor. You like the idea of the poor being helped by the Federal government. I like the idea of the poor being helped by other people.
My point is that Jesus never spoke about the government helping the poor, or to the government about helping the poor. He spoke to people about helping the poor.
I am for a smaller government, you like a big government. Two different perspectives. Is there something wrong with two perspectives? If you do, then never take a job as a substitute teacher.
I’ve taught at many schools for many, many, many teachers. Each has his/her own way of doing things. And most of all these different ways of doing something work. The biggest problem with a big federal government is that it likes a set up where everyone does everything the same way. It should not be that difficult to ascertain that the same way does not work in all circumstances. In fact, some things (welfare for example) that have helped some have been a disaster for others. That is why I am in favor of smaller, local agencies helping people in their own different ways.
Why are you being so rude and insulting about adding different ways of doing something? It is not like you.
Sigh. I never said the Bible claimed the government should not help the poor. In fact, I specifically said I keep the two separate. I follow the Bible in that Jesus told people to help the poor. So, I do my best.
Separation of Church and State. Now let’s turn to how I view the State. I believe those who govern least, govern best. While I am not registered as such, many of my views definitely have that Libertarian slant. As a citizen, I opt for small government.
It appears you feel this is good reason for asserting I am a horrible Christian who does not follow the Bible, and seem to be saying you, who believe in neither Christianity or the Bible, are an exemplary specimen of both being a Christian and following the Bible. Meanwhile, I have been seeing you as an agnostic who favors big government. Since you are asserting you are otherwise, my apologies.
JayJay
461
No one said you’re a “horrible Christian”.
They said your internal worldview is not consistent.
The hyperbole is more fun.
My point was there was no biblical basis to say govt should not help the poor. We seem to agree there.
Whoah there. All I said was there was no biblical basis for saying govt shouldn’t be involved in helping the poor. I don’t think you are a horrible Christian at all. We just feel differently about how to help the poor. As long as you don’t imply that using govt is not Christian I have no beef.
I believe govt and private agencies can help the poor. It does not have to be mutually exclusive.
You accused me of being condescending towards the poor (that they cannot help themselves) when I was mirroring Jesus’s desire to help the poor.
And who has had a rude awakening regarding social security? As far as I know, everyone is currently getting their promised benefit.
