America First - As A Guiding Principle

[tnt]

@GrandWazoo

A friend of mine got a summer job at a GM plant due to his Uncle. He was in a pit attaching bumpers on trucks. He told me that the job sucked. But it got him in shape. And it for sure convinced him that he didn’t want to be there. He worked hard and became a doctor.

Had a friend who had a summer union job in a bottling plant. There was a massive conveyor belt of bottles - like 40 bottles wide - that chugged along toward the next step in the process.

The belt had a corner in it. At the corner, bottles sometimes tipped over. Not often. Like one an hour.

His job was to sit at the corner and pick the bottles up that tipped over.

He was paid like 15/hr for this, in the mid 80s and had benifits and a pension.

[e7alr]

You are stuck on the fact that a job may require minimal skills, rather than what the actual job is, the physical requirements of the job and the conditions it is done under. Essentially you are arguing that all minimal skill jobs are worth the same pay. And from this you infer that minimal skill retail and service jobs should pay just as much as minimal skilled manufacturing jobs. You also want to equate Big Box volume discount purchasing power to a manufacturing plant’s production capacity and use the fact that some positions in both will involve some minimal skilled positions to declare the work equal. Big box purchasing power is about receiving discounted pricing for larger orders from suppliers. This allows them to undercut the local storefront competition. That little store can’t place an order on the scale of regional distribution center, let alone the national footprint of a big box chain. And none of this is about labor. At a production facility everything is about the capacity to produce the largest amount possible, in the least amount of time, at the lowest cost per item. Labor, machinery and raw materials are the focuses. The work pace and demands on manufacturing labor, even the minimal skilled element, is much more intensive than in retail and service positions.

But none of this is your actual goal here. You are trying to make an argument for progressive social policies being America first. Yet those social policies would drive even more jobs overseas.

[zantax]

@tnt

@GrandWazoo

A friend of mine got a summer job at a GM plant due to his Uncle. He was in a pit attaching bumpers on trucks. He told me that the job sucked. But it got him in shape. And it for sure convinced him that he didn’t want to be there. He worked hard and became a doctor.

Had a friend who had a summer union job in a bottling plant. There was a massive conveyor belt of bottles - like 40 bottles wide - that chugged along toward the next step in the process.

The belt had a corner in it. At the corner, bottles sometimes tipped over. Not often. Like one an hour.

His job was to sit at the corner and pick the bottles up that tipped over.

He was paid like 15/hr for this, in the mid 80s and had benifits and a pension.

Thats nice, most likely a robot now has that job.

[tnt]

Why do you keep bringing up the differences in factory and retail businesses?

Has nothing or do with the conversation.

There are plenty of low skilled mindless and easy jobs in factories. There are plenty in retail. What they do is irrelevant. The fact is people have less trouble paying the mindless low skilled factory worker more than the mindless low skilled retail worker. And that makes no sense.

[tnt]

Of course this was years ago but he said of course they looked into solving the problem otherwise and it was cheaper to higher a union worker than it was to fix the curve or building a robot.

That was then for sure.

[zantax]

@tnt

Why do you keep bringing up the differences in factory and retail businesses?

Has nothing or do with the conversation.

There are plenty of low skilled mindless and easy jobs in factories. There are plenty in retail. What they do is irrelevant. The fact is people have less trouble paying the mindless low skilled factory worker more than the mindless low skilled retail worker. And that makes no sense.

Psst, I don’t set wages for either. Nor do I think the government should. So I do not treat them any differently at all.

[tnt]

Pssst…I wasn’t talking to you.

[Tom_Ch]

I’m in support of American Worker First!

Win-Win for all.

John Deere strike over after workers agree to 3rd contract offer

[zantax]

@tnt

Pssst…I wasn’t talking to you.

Ask me if I care.

[e7alr]

Our policies should promote industrial expansion in the US. Expansion means jobs for workers and jobs are a win-win. And means manufacturing, not just assembly. US, rather than foreign, manufacturing reduces trade deficits. That keeps capital circulating in the US, in the hands of US citizens, promoting our GDP.

[e7alr]

I am bringing up the difference between manufacturing and retail. Factory is the name of one place where manufacturing can occur. You seem to think that skill level is the only factor and don’t appear to recognize negative economic impact of foreign manufacturing in preference to domestic manufacturing. An America first policy will prioritize domestic manufacturing, with the associated domestic jobs over foreign production sending US dollars to support a foreign workforce and economy.

[WuWei]

Of course you do.

[Guilds]

@tnt

There are plenty of low skilled mindless and easy jobs in factories. There are plenty in retail. What they do is irrelevant. The fact is people have less trouble paying the mindless low skilled factory worker more than the mindless low skilled retail worker. And that makes no sense.

The financialization of everything is a reason for this.

The Net profits companies used to make, are not acceptable any longer. Must have a large ROI…must be able to pay the shareholders large dividends…CEO’s pay are based on the stock price. When corps have huge profits, or get tax breaks…they spend most of that on buying back stock…to increase the stock value.

Profits are a good and necessary thing for businesses to be successful…but there needs to be a better balance. Companies can pay more to their workers, and still be very profitable…but Wall Street wants more…so they can make…more.

[WuWei]

@tnt

@WuWei

What does that have to do with a service economy?

It’s a benefit that follows our shift to off shore cheaper production - that is what started our shift from manufacturing to service sector (service sector includes retail).

You think air conditioners are made in China?

[WuWei]

@tnt

@WuWei

That’s who is hiring unskilled labor for entry level positions.

Yep.

Just like the coal mines and factories of the past hired unskilled labor for entry level positions.

But for some reason, we (sometimes begrudgingly) accept that those miners and factory workers earned a good living, could raise a family on one salary and even take a vacation or two.

I’d like to read the history book you’re getting this from.

[WuWei]

@tnt

What do you think this unskilled laborers did 70 years ago? Or did you think they didn’t exist?

Got skilled.

@tnt

Really, why does it matter? This is where we are. This is what we have become. We can either work together and put americans first and make things better, or we can point and laugh at the fry guy because he has to cook us lunch.

I’m not pointing and laughing at anybody.

If you look at a 45 year-old person working in McDonald’s as “fry guy”, guess what you’ll see.

[WuWei]

@NJBob

@WuWei

@NJBob

What’s the difference between “America First” and isolationism? Doesn’t America Firstism require we disengage from the rest of the world?

America First, not only.

What does that mean?

Exactly what it says.

[WuWei]

@tnt

But they were completely unskilled - as unskilled as a walmart shelf stocker.

For 90 days

[WuWei]

@tnt

There is the same chances at advancement in a factory as in a retail store.

That’s not true at all.

[zantax]

@WuWei

@tnt

@WuWei

That’s who is hiring unskilled labor for entry level positions.

Yep.

Just like the coal mines and factories of the past hired unskilled labor for entry level positions.

But for some reason, we (sometimes begrudgingly) accept that those miners and factory workers earned a good living, could raise a family on one salary and even take a vacation or two.

I’d like to read the history book you’re getting this from.

My grandfather was a coal miner, he couldn’t afford shoes for his kids and died of black lung at 62.