Yeah…that’ll work out well economically for everyone, especially considering the average credit card debt.
It’s a non-physical thing. The only thing lost is the potential repayment.

I disagree completely.
That’s fine, but it’s clear to me that debt obligations are positive instead of natural (some other examples are punishment, intellectual property, and contracts).

Sometimes I wonder what my political views would have been by now had I not gotten off my ass and stopped being broke all the time when I did.
Once upon a time, just having my own house seemed impossible, or even something as simple as a car. And ironically, things were a lot easier back then.
Interesting, but I’m not sure what tge rekevance is. The unnaturalness of debt obligations doesn’t mean rejecting hard work.

Some might retort that “personal responsibility” implies that debt must be repaid and the borrower shouldn’t be “protected from the consequences of their choices”. But why is that? Why is it not the other way around? Why don’t we view debt obligations as the lender being protected from the consequences of their own choices? You lent the money, so—absent debt repayment laws—it’s your fault if you aren’t getting it back.
So basically you are advocating people not paying back money they were lent and using the excuse “ don’t blame me, you were stupid enough to lend to me”.
Talk about an entitlement mentality!
Yikes!
Responsibilities are a bitch like that.

Samson_Corwell:
Some might retort that “personal responsibility” implies that debt must be repaid and the borrower shouldn’t be “protected from the consequences of their choices”. But why is that? Why is it not the other way around? Why don’t we view debt obligations as the lender being protected from the consequences of their own choices? You lent the money, so—absent debt repayment laws—it’s your fault if you aren’t getting it back.
So basically you are advocating people not paying back money they were lent and using the excuse “ don’t blame me, you were stupid enough to lend to me”.
Talk about an entitlement mentality!
Yikes!
Lulz. This is what I mean. You can use “personal responsibility” to argue for either one. It’s indeterminate, so the CORRECT justification to use is honor.
“Oh, man. Listen this entitled guy asking to be protected from the poor consequences of his lending choices. Sorry, pal. I don’t have sympathy for people who want bailouts. Dumb mistakes should hurt and enforcing debt repayment would just mean you won’t learn your lesson to be more careful about whom you lend to.”
It beats a kneecapping.

so the CORRECT justification to use is honor.
It would be the civilization of debt management, as referenced above.

It beats a kneecapping.
Kneecappers get shot.

Samson_Corwell:
so the CORRECT justification to use is honor.
It would be the civilization of debt management, as referenced above.
What? “Civilization”?

Responsibilities are a bitch like that.
“Yeah, I know. Too bad lenders don’t want to learn it.”
By and large, they do the shooting. Thus the “civilized” system we have now.

By and large, they do the shooting. Thus the “civilized” system we have now.
This is a really bad argument.
My dingbat theory is we went second world status sometime after Covid. The shock to the economy never recovered from the shutdowns.
Property ownership is going to be something for the few (privileged) in the incoming future and investors only and what you’re gonna see and I don’t say this with an easy heart is multiple families and friends having to live in the same house to be able to make it.
That’s what they do in the Ukraine. I was wondering when I first went there how in the hell is the property prices $200k but people are only making $3000 a year wages, found out the vast majority all live together roommates that’s how, they all rent

WuWei:
Samson_Corwell:
if a debt is canceled, no one loses anything
That’s not true at all.
It’s a non-physical thing. The only thing lost is the potential repayment.
What?
Are you kidding?

Zippy:
Samson_Corwell:
Some might retort that “personal responsibility” implies that debt must be repaid and the borrower shouldn’t be “protected from the consequences of their choices”. But why is that? Why is it not the other way around? Why don’t we view debt obligations as the lender being protected from the consequences of their own choices? You lent the money, so—absent debt repayment laws—it’s your fault if you aren’t getting it back.
So basically you are advocating people not paying back money they were lent and using the excuse “ don’t blame me, you were stupid enough to lend to me”.
Talk about an entitlement mentality!
Yikes!
Lulz. This is what I mean. You can use “personal responsibility” to argue for either one. It’s indeterminate, so the CORRECT justification to use is honor.
“Oh, man. Listen this entitled guy asking to be protected from the poor consequences of his lending choices. Sorry, pal. I don’t have sympathy for people who want bailouts. Dumb mistakes should hurt and enforcing debt repayment would just mean you won’t learn your lesson to be more careful about whom you lend to.”
People should remember why they were upset when the big banks were bailed out over the credit collapse in 2007-8.
Your argument was the argument they were using, whether they consciously knew it or not “Why should the big banks be bailed out when they were giving out loans…nay PIMPING OUT LOANS… from people with no credit and no job? Just to keep the mortgage derivatives racket going?”
Until Peter Santelli reminded everyone of the horrible injustice the poor, no credit, no income bad seeds perpetrated on the helpless banks when he did his famous “tea party rant”…that was inspired by resistance to a relatively minor proposed homeowner bailout- a bailout that was positively DWARFED in size and scope by the bailouts big banks actually got.
Then everyone was properly reset to thinking of those poor people as irresponsible cretins who stole from the totally reputable and responsible banks because they were greedy and wanted everything now, now now.

Samson_Corwell:
WuWei:
Samson_Corwell:
if a debt is canceled, no one loses anything
That’s not true at all.
It’s a non-physical thing. The only thing lost is the potential repayment.
What?
Are you kidding?
Something confusing about that?

Lulz. This is what I mean. You can use “personal responsibility” to argue for either one. It’s indeterminate, so the CORRECT justification to use is honor.
“Oh, man. Listen this entitled guy asking to be protected from the poor consequences of his lending choices. Sorry, pal. I don’t have sympathy for people who want bailouts. Dumb mistakes should hurt and enforcing debt repayment would just mean you won’t learn your lesson to be more careful about whom you lend to.”

People should remember why they were upset when the big banks were bailed out over the credit collapse in 2007-8.
Your argument was the argument they were using, whether they consciously knew it or not “Why should the big banks be bailed out when they were giving out loans…nay PIMPING OUT LOANS… from people with no credit and no job? Just to keep the mortgage derivatives racket going?”
Until Peter Santelli reminded everyone of the horrible injustice the poor, no credit, no income bad seeds perpetrated on the helpless banks when he did his famous “tea party rant”…that was inspired by resistance to a relatively minor proposed homeowner bailout- a bailout that was positively DWARFED in size and scope by the bailouts big banks actually got.
Then everyone was properly reset to thinking of those poor people as irresponsible cretins who stole from the totally reputable and responsible banks because they were greedy and wanted everything now, now now.
And this from the same people who applauded the prosecution of a man in court for having the gall to pay back his lenders.

Samson_Corwell:
Lulz. This is what I mean. You can use “personal responsibility” to argue for either one. It’s indeterminate, so the CORRECT justification to use is honor.
“Oh, man. Listen this entitled guy asking to be protected from the poor consequences of his lending choices. Sorry, pal. I don’t have sympathy for people who want bailouts. Dumb mistakes should hurt and enforcing debt repayment would just mean you won’t learn your lesson to be more careful about whom you lend to.”
JayJay:
People should remember why they were upset when the big banks were bailed out over the credit collapse in 2007-8.
Your argument was the argument they were using, whether they consciously knew it or not “Why should the big banks be bailed out when they were giving out loans…nay PIMPING OUT LOANS… from people with no credit and no job? Just to keep the mortgage derivatives racket going?”
Until Peter Santelli reminded everyone of the horrible injustice the poor, no credit, no income bad seeds perpetrated on the helpless banks when he did his famous “tea party rant”…that was inspired by resistance to a relatively minor proposed homeowner bailout- a bailout that was positively DWARFED in size and scope by the bailouts big banks actually got.
Then everyone was properly reset to thinking of those poor people as irresponsible cretins who stole from the totally reputable and responsible banks because they were greedy and wanted everything now, now now.
And this from the same people who applauded the prosecution of a man in court for having the gall to pay back his lenders.
Not sure what you’re referencing, Skippy.