A teacher hangs a BLM flag at a school named for a Confederate general. Now she's under investigation

Jezcoe · 2021-05-26T12:40:28.572Z

Ben_Natuf:

what benefit did slavery provide after the war?

What a strange question.

If we are going to go into Reconstruction and it’s failure I will admit that I am not as well versed.

The war didn’t erase the wealth that was built up by slave labor.

It is childish to say that there was an equation that was balanced by a war that was fought to keep the Union together with the result of being a final answer to the slavery question but saw the lives of the newly freed slaves not improve all that much.

zantax · 2021-05-26T12:45:52.373Z

Ben_Natuf:

what benefit did slavery provide after the war?

What benefit did it provide prior to the war? Slavery is a poor economic choice. More wealth would have been generated by paying labor to produce cotton. Choosing slave labor over free labor is precisely why the south lost, why they were too poor to win.

WuWei · 2021-05-26T13:10:30.094Z

Jezcoe:

The war didn’t erase the wealth that was built up by slave labor.

Too broad.

Jezcoe · 2021-05-26T13:12:19.880Z

WuWei:

Jezcoe:

The war didn’t erase the wealth that was built up by slave labor.

Too broad.

Explain

WuWei · 2021-05-26T13:15:15.756Z

Jezcoe:

WuWei:

Jezcoe:

The war didn’t erase the wealth that was built up by slave labor.

Too broad.

Explain

It erased a lot of it in the south.

PurpnGold · 2021-05-26T13:19:31.497Z

zantax:

What benefit did it provide prior to the war? Slavery is a poor economic choice. More wealth would have been generated by paying labor to produce cotton. Choosing slave labor over free labor is precisely why the south lost, why they were too poor to win.

Slavery made the USA and economic power and it showed no signs of slowing down leading up to the civil war.

PurpnGold · 2021-05-26T13:21:25.934Z

WuWei:

It erased a lot of it in the south.

It lowered income, not wealth. Those same former slaves often had to go back to the plantation but this time to make a tiny bit of money, instead of nothing.

Jezcoe · 2021-05-26T13:21:57.296Z

WuWei:

Jezcoe:

WuWei:

Jezcoe:

The war didn’t erase the wealth that was built up by slave labor.

Too broad.

Explain

It erased a lot of it in the south.

And it erased a lot of wealth in the North. A ton of capital on Wall Street was tied to slavery.

My response is boohoo.

What it didn’t erase was the previous decades and the enormous growth that the country saw. The US would not have grown like it did nor would have industrialized like it did without cotton, and cotton relied on slavery.

The abuse of that labor pool continued into post Reconstruction with sharecropping arrangements.

WuWei · 2021-05-26T13:22:18.408Z

I’m not talking about former slaves.

WuWei · 2021-05-26T13:23:00.054Z

Jezcoe:

WuWei:

Jezcoe:

WuWei:

Jezcoe:

The war didn’t erase the wealth that was built up by slave labor.

Too broad.

Explain

It erased a lot of it in the south.

And it erased a lot of wealth in the North. A ton of capital on Wall Street was tied to slavery.

My response is boohoo.

What it didn’t erase was the previous decades and the enormous growth that the country saw. The US would not have grown like it did nor would have industrialized like it did without cotton, and cotton relied on slavery.

The abuse of that labor pool continued into post Reconstruction with sharecropping arrangements.

I will agree with that.

PurpnGold · 2021-05-26T13:23:06.447Z

WuWei:

I’m not talking about former slaves.

You missed my point. Plantation owners traded slave labor for paid labor.

Jezcoe · 2021-05-26T13:23:45.533Z

PurpnGold:

WuWei:

I’m not talking about former slaves.

You missed my point. Plantation owners traded slave labor for paid labor.

Slave labor for barely paid labor.

WuWei · 2021-05-26T13:23:52.478Z

PurpnGold:

WuWei:

I’m not talking about former slaves.

You missed my point. Plantation owners traded slave labor for paid labor.

And land was confiscated. Taxes levied forcing the selling of more land.

zantax · 2021-05-26T13:26:34.197Z

PurpnGold:

zantax:

What benefit did it provide prior to the war? Slavery is a poor economic choice. More wealth would have been generated by paying labor to produce cotton. Choosing slave labor over free labor is precisely why the south lost, why they were too poor to win.

Slavery made the USA and economic power and it showed no signs of slowing down leading up to the civil war.

No, slavery held us back economically. Do you really want to argue slavery is a better system than paid labor for generating wealth? I don’t think slaves were very good consumers.

WuWei · 2021-05-26T13:28:39.557Z

zantax:

PurpnGold:

zantax:

What benefit did it provide prior to the war? Slavery is a poor economic choice. More wealth would have been generated by paying labor to produce cotton. Choosing slave labor over free labor is precisely why the south lost, why they were too poor to win.

Slavery made the USA and economic power and it showed no signs of slowing down leading up to the civil war.

No, slavery held us back economically. Do you really want to argue slavery is a better system than paid labor for generating wealth? I don’t think slaves were very good consumers.

That’s silly.

zantax · 2021-05-26T13:30:43.667Z

WuWei:

zantax:

PurpnGold:

zantax:

What benefit did it provide prior to the war? Slavery is a poor economic choice. More wealth would have been generated by paying labor to produce cotton. Choosing slave labor over free labor is precisely why the south lost, why they were too poor to win.

Slavery made the USA and economic power and it showed no signs of slowing down leading up to the civil war.

No, slavery held us back economically. Do you really want to argue slavery is a better system than paid labor for generating wealth? I don’t think slaves were very good consumers.

That’s silly.

Is it? Slavery was an enormous waste of human capital. How many potential black Edison, Fords and Franklins died as slaves?

zantax · 2021-05-26T13:32:01.215Z

It always amuses me when people start extolling the economic superiority of slavery, in 2021 no less.

Jezcoe · 2021-05-26T13:52:08.029Z

zantax:

It always amuses me when people start extolling the economic superiority of slavery, in 2021 no less.

Recognizing that the wealth of the nation was built in the 1800’s in large part by slave labor does not equal “extolling the economic superiority” of it.

zantax · 2021-05-26T14:15:23.865Z

Jezcoe:

zantax:

It always amuses me when people start extolling the economic superiority of slavery, in 2021 no less.

Recognizing that the wealth of the nation was built in the 1800’s in large part by slave labor does not equal “extolling the economic superiority” of it.

When you refuse to admit it held us back, it is.

Jezcoe · 2021-05-26T14:54:43.680Z

zantax:

Jezcoe:

zantax:

It always amuses me when people start extolling the economic superiority of slavery, in 2021 no less.

Recognizing that the wealth of the nation was built in the 1800’s in large part by slave labor does not equal “extolling the economic superiority” of it.

When you refuse to admit it held us back, it is.

It held the south back from the industrialization that the North saw.

Jefferson wrote about it.

In 1857 a non Slaveholder guy from North Carolina named Hinton Helper wrote “The Impending Crises of the South” in which he argued that the landed gentry in the south were sucking up all of the economic oppurtunities and creating a class of poor white. He talked of the evils of slavery as one of class, not race.

Now before we think he was some woke dude… he was virulently racist… even for the time… pretty bad.

The response to that book was for the South to outlaw it and to block John Sherman from taking the Speaker of the House position because of his endorsement of Helper’s work.

What I find really frustrating about the issue of slavery during this time period is that there are plenty of examples going back to the founding where they wrote about how slavery was not good. Quite a few of those authors even owned slaves. Yet they did nothing about it and in later decades slavery was expanded.

As far as I can tell one of the primary reasons that it wasn’t abandoned was because they didn’t know what to do about a bunch of free blacks just living their life… being free… going wherever they wanted. That they didn’t want to think about.

Recognizing these facts about the period does not mean that it is an endorsement for the economic superiority of slavery.

It is what happened.