75 years ago Soviet tanks entered Warsaw: Liberation or occupation?

Bill.in.PA · 2020-01-18T14:43:29.160Z

The ghosts of World War II are alive and well in Poland and Russia. The horrendous scale of the war still resonates in ways that are hard for Americans to comprehend.

There have been recent Russian commemorations of the January 1945 Soviet Liberation of Warsaw, and the Russian government is concerned about Poland ignoring the anniversary. The Russians claim that the infamous 1939 Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact that allowed the Soviets to occupy the eastern part of Poland was necessary to the defense of Russia and point to similar pre-war agreements between Poland and Germany. For details see:
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/478425-warsaw-liberation-poland-soviet-union/

Instead Poland commemorated the uprising by the Polish Home Army that started in August 1944. The Soviet army waited on the outskirts to the city and refused to move forward despite pleas for assistance from the Poles and the western allies. After 63 days of battle the Nazis defeated the Poles and leveled the city. Estimates are 150,000 to 200,000 Polish civilians were killed.

The National Interest – 1 Aug 14

Remembering the Warsaw Uprising: August 1, 1944

As the world looks back at World War I, another anniversary looms large.

Is the anniversary of the defeat of the Nazis in Warsaw a reason to celebrate?

Or was it just trading one set of occupiers for another?

Should the events of 75 years ago have any relevance to politics today?

merickson · 2020-01-18T15:32:12.227Z

Bill.in.PA:

Is the anniversary of the defeat of the Nazis in Warsaw a reason to celebrate?

Yes it is a reason for the Soviets (now Russians) to celebrate.

Or was it just trading one set of occupiers for another?

Yes it was

Should the events of 75 years ago have any relevance to politics today?

To the extent that 75 years ago led to 70 years ago, lead to 65 … They actually do have relevance.

I find it telling that the Russians are taking much the same line in regard to their 1939 invasion of Poland as Turkey has taken towards the Armenian genocide.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-01-18T15:44:35.170Z

Poland is very concerned about the Russian war in Ukraine; they see it as a Russian attempt to re-establish the Soviet empire. That is one reason why the events of World War II still resonate today.

The US Civil War happened over 150 years ago, but we can still see the controversy about Confederate War memorials. Likewise Poland has been removing Soviet war memorials over Russian protests:

Newsweek – 31 Mar 16

Poland Plans to Remove 500 Soviet Monuments

State historians will launch a campaign to remove hundreds of Communist statues.

FloridaYankee · 2020-01-18T15:47:28.987Z

The Soviet Union never liberated anybody.

merickson · 2020-01-18T15:48:32.230Z

I was thinking of Catherine the Great rather than WWII when I noticed Russia going after the Ukraine.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-01-18T15:50:14.434Z

Arguably the Soviet occupation of Poland was less brutal than the Nazi occupation, but real liberation had to wait for another 40+ years after the end of World War II.

H_Arendt · 2020-01-18T15:50:33.778Z

Bill.in.PA:

The ghosts of World War II are alive and well in Poland and Russia. The horrendous scale of the war still resonates in ways that are hard for Americans to comprehend.

There have been recent Russian commemorations of the January 1945 Soviet Liberation of Warsaw, and the Russian government is concerned about Poland ignoring the anniversary. The Russians claim that the infamous 1939 Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact that allowed the Soviets to occupy the eastern part of Poland was necessary to the defense of Russia and point to similar pre-war agreements between Poland and Germany. For details see:
It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler — RT Op-ed

Instead Poland commemorated the uprising by the Polish Home Army that started in August 1944. The Soviet army waited on the outskirts to the city and refused to move forward despite pleas for assistance from the Poles and the western allies. After 63 days of battle the Nazis defeated the Poles and leveled the city. Estimates are 150,000 to 200,000 Polish civilians were killed.
Remembering the Warsaw Uprising: August 1, 1944 | The National Interest

Is the anniversary of the defeat of the Nazis in Warsaw a reason to celebrate?

Or was it just trading one set of occupiers for another?

Should the events of 75 years ago have any relevance to politics today?

A tragedy of Polish history is that it is situated between Germany and Russia and so fated to seldom be left alone. Stalin’s army was no more interested in Poland as Poland than Hitler’s army was.

Jezcoe · 2020-01-18T16:06:50.835Z

H_Arendt:

Bill.in.PA:

The ghosts of World War II are alive and well in Poland and Russia. The horrendous scale of the war still resonates in ways that are hard for Americans to comprehend.

There have been recent Russian commemorations of the January 1945 Soviet Liberation of Warsaw, and the Russian government is concerned about Poland ignoring the anniversary. The Russians claim that the infamous 1939 Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact that allowed the Soviets to occupy the eastern part of Poland was necessary to the defense of Russia and point to similar pre-war agreements between Poland and Germany. For details see:
It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler — RT Op-ed

Instead Poland commemorated the uprising by the Polish Home Army that started in August 1944. The Soviet army waited on the outskirts to the city and refused to move forward despite pleas for assistance from the Poles and the western allies. After 63 days of battle the Nazis defeated the Poles and leveled the city. Estimates are 150,000 to 200,000 Polish civilians were killed.
Remembering the Warsaw Uprising: August 1, 1944 | The National Interest

Is the anniversary of the defeat of the Nazis in Warsaw a reason to celebrate?

Or was it just trading one set of occupiers for another?

Should the events of 75 years ago have any relevance to politics today?

A tragedy of Polish history is that it is situated between Germany and Russia and so fated to seldom be left alone. Stalin’s army was no more interested in Poland as Poland than Hitler’s army was.

Yep… in WW2 Poland got screwed twice.